Topics

Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

Mr. Ed
 

Hi,

I went to a website on my state to send a message to the governor. When I was on the website I could fill out all the forms and write my message. But then at the bottom I had to put a check mark in the box I am not a robot. Then the captcha came up. Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha? By having the Captcha the website is not accessible. It also had an audio to use but I cannot use those as my hearing is not good enough. So how do these state websites or other sites get around using captchas and still meet the ADA guidelines to be accessible. Any idea’s or opinions on this?

Mr. Ed

 

Hi,

An important interjection: having a CAPTCHA does not make a website automatically inaccessible. Please keep this in mind as the thread progresses.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mr. Ed
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 5:15 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Hi,

I went to a website on my state to send a message to the governor. When I was on the website I could fill out all the forms and write my message. But then at the bottom I had to put a check mark in the box I am not a robot. Then the captcha came up. Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha? By having the Captcha the website is not accessible. It also had an audio to use but I cannot use those as my hearing is not good enough. So how do these state websites or other sites get around using captchas and still meet the ADA guidelines to be accessible. Any idea’s or opinions on this?

Mr. Ed

Immigrant
 

You are right, a lot of sites now offer audio CAPTCHA.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:20 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Hi,

An important interjection: having a CAPTCHA does not make a website automatically inaccessible. Please keep this in mind as the thread progresses.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mr. Ed
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 5:15 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Hi,

I went to a website on my state to send a message to the governor. When I was on the website I could fill out all the forms and write my message. But then at the bottom I had to put a check mark in the box I am not a robot. Then the captcha came up. Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha? By having the Captcha the website is not accessible. It also had an audio to use but I cannot use those as my hearing is not good enough. So how do these state websites or other sites get around using captchas and still meet the ADA guidelines to be accessible. Any idea’s or opinions on this?

Mr. Ed

 

No, they are a good thing.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 7:20 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Hi,

An important interjection: having a CAPTCHA does not make a website automatically inaccessible. Please keep this in mind as the thread progresses.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mr. Ed
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 5:15 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Hi,

I went to a website on my state to send a message to the governor. When I was on the website I could fill out all the forms and write my message. But then at the bottom I had to put a check mark in the box I am not a robot. Then the captcha came up. Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha? By having the Captcha the website is not accessible. It also had an audio to use but I cannot use those as my hearing is not good enough. So how do these state websites or other sites get around using captchas and still meet the ADA guidelines to be accessible. Any idea’s or opinions on this?

Mr. Ed

heather albright
 

I am not only blind, I having hearing difficulties so a spoken capcha does not work for me at all. So it is really not accessible to folks like me or my deaf blind friends. Or even those who do not know English. However, the math problems work just fine or the type words.

Cheers Heather

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 7:19 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides acaptcha?

 

Hi,

An important interjection: having a CAPTCHA does not make a website automatically inaccessible. Please keep this in mind as the thread progresses.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mr. Ed
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 5:15 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Hi,

I went to a website on my state to send a message to the governor. When I was on the website I could fill out all the forms and write my message. But then at the bottom I had to put a check mark in the box I am not a robot. Then the captcha came up. Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha? By having the Captcha the website is not accessible. It also had an audio to use but I cannot use those as my hearing is not good enough. So how do these state websites or other sites get around using captchas and still meet the ADA guidelines to be accessible. Any idea’s or opinions on this?

Mr. Ed

 

 

Yes, of course, the purpose of the captcha es to prevent robots to fill out webforms, which can be accomplished by other means, for example, you could have a form field that:

 

Asks for the answer to something simple like “The sum of three and four” note they are written in text instead of numbers, and then verify that the answer is seven or 7.

Ask The color of the black horse of Washington” and verifying the answer.

Asking “Leve this field blank” and then if the field is filled out, send the whole thing to /dev/null.

 

And so on, the possibilities are many.

 

Humberto

 

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mr. Ed
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:15 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Hi,

I went to a website on my state to send a message to the governor. When I was on the website I could fill out all the forms and write my message. But then at the bottom I had to put a check mark in the box I am not a robot. Then the captcha came up. Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha? By having the Captcha the website is not accessible. It also had an audio to use but I cannot use those as my hearing is not good enough. So how do these state websites or other sites get around using captchas and still meet the ADA guidelines to be accessible. Any idea’s or opinions on this?

Mr. Ed

Sandra Johnson
 

Hello:

 

I hate CAPTCHAS.  They are difficult to hear and understand.  When using the audio challenge I have found many of them will not accept your answer even when you have typed in the correct numbers or letters.  I finally had to get a sighted person to enter it for me.  He said even the visual challenge was difficult to see.  If a website insists on this type of security then they need to make it easy to see and hear.   

 

 

Sandra Johnson

SLJohnson25@...

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Mike Capelle
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 9:11 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

No, they are a good thing.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 7:20 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Hi,

An important interjection: having a CAPTCHA does not make a website automatically inaccessible. Please keep this in mind as the thread progresses.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mr. Ed
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 5:15 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Hi,

I went to a website on my state to send a message to the governor. When I was on the website I could fill out all the forms and write my message. But then at the bottom I had to put a check mark in the box I am not a robot. Then the captcha came up. Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha? By having the Captcha the website is not accessible. It also had an audio to use but I cannot use those as my hearing is not good enough. So how do these state websites or other sites get around using captchas and still meet the ADA guidelines to be accessible. Any idea’s or opinions on this?

Mr. Ed

 

Holly
 

Even with very good hearing, it is very hard to understand the audio capcias.

Immigrant
 

I would say that we are in the same situation as sighted people in that regard because visual CAPTCHA is just as difficult to see as the audio CAPTCHA is hard to hear. They are made purposely unclear so that a person would take some time to understand it. That way it would be hard for robots to decipher.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Holly
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 9:37 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Even with very good hearing, it is very hard to understand the audio capcias.

Mike Pietruk
 

Some use simple mathematical problems such as

what is 3+2

or

multiply 3 times 4

But keep in mind, accessability is a legal term and doesn't mean what a
lot of people take it to be.

 

On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 09:36 PM, Holly wrote:
it is very hard to understand the audio capcias.
Not that there will ever be agreement about this, but I definitely disagree.  Even without my hearing aids I am generally able to hear an audio captcha of a character and digit sequence the first time through.  Most of them, but not all, are pretty clear with a bit of white noise in the background to make it difficult for computer dictation software to recognize it with ease.

And as to "making it easy to see and hear," that entirely defeats the purpose and mechanism.  They are meant to be reasonably easy for those with either normal vision, or close to it, and normal hearing, or close to it, to understand while making them difficult for other technology to understand.  The idea is to make it a minimal challenge for the vast majority of humanity, in one or the other of the two commonly used modalities, while making it significantly difficult for computers to do in place of a human.

There will never be the perfect security challenge mechanism for everyone.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

This country has socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor.

       ~ Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

Jeanne Gallagher <jeanne50@...>
 

 

I agree. I’m a totally blind musician by trade, and I find it hard to get them right the first ttime. I understand their purpose, but they’re sure a pain in the neck!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Holly
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 9:36 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Even with very good hearing, it is very hard to understand the audio capcias.

 

Marie
 

I installed the Rumola extension to the new edge and on several occasions, I have been alerted that there was a capcha on the page and that Rumola had filled in the needed solution. I don’t know that it will work on every site but it works on my Credit Union account.
Marie
 
 
Marie
 

From: Mr. Ed
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 5:15 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?
 

Hi,

I went to a website on my state to send a message to the governor. When I was on the website I could fill out all the forms and write my message. But then at the bottom I had to put a check mark in the box I am not a robot. Then the captcha came up. Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha? By having the Captcha the website is not accessible. It also had an audio to use but I cannot use those as my hearing is not good enough. So how do these state websites or other sites get around using captchas and still meet the ADA guidelines to be accessible. Any idea’s or opinions on this?

Mr. Ed

 

On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 09:44 PM, Immigrant wrote:
That way it would be hard for robots to decipher.
My thanks for your explanation, which came in while I was trying to compose mine.  It puts it more clearly than I did.

I just don't get how people don't understand that security challenges would be useless if no actual challenge is involved and that would be easy for AI-ish technologies to decipher instantly.

Original captchas, which haven't been in use for quite a while now, were actually scans of old manuscripts that were hard for anyone to read.  No one was expected to get the perfect answer, which you must do now, but just to get the part of it that was easy to read (and there was no audio).  The other characters that people entered for the ambiguous text were collected and analyzed to determine what that ambiguous text most likely was.  Thousands of eyes eventually close in on the most likely solution.  That style was abandoned because it is actually inaccessible when used as originally conceived.

But even in modern captchas, the sequence of characters and digits is intentionally obscured by doing things like making them fuzzy, or wiggly, or not oriented in a perfectly straight line.  Those of us who can see can generally "see through" these intentional obscurations while OCR cannot.  The same concept applies to the use of background noise on the audio captchas.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

This country has socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor.

       ~ Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

Immigrant
 

I am not by any means thrilled when I encounter them, but if an audio CAPTCHA is present, I will usually memorize the sequence or understand the words if not on the first, then certainly on the second try. In my experience, many of the number sequence audio CAPTCHA's are intensionally garbled, with voices in the background as the person/people would pronounce numbers one by one. It is not always clear whether the person says H or 8, 9 or 5, O or 2, etc. But after another try, usually most of it can be grasped.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeanne Gallagher
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 9:55 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

 

I agree. I’m a totally blind musician by trade, and I find it hard to get them right the first ttime. I understand their purpose, but they’re sure a pain in the neck!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Holly
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 9:36 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Even with very good hearing, it is very hard to understand the audio capcias.

 

 

On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 09:57 PM, Marie wrote:
Rumola extension
I had forgotten about this extension, which will work under any Chromium-based browser.  It works well and you can choose to use it only when necessary.  Ninety-nine cents buys you 50 solving cycles while $1.95 buys 150 solving cycles.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

This country has socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor.

       ~ Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

chris judge
 

Hi. I just completed the course from Brian Hartgen on using the new edge. He introduced us to a capcha solving service called, I believe it wasRumola. It requires an extension for edge and is suppose to work quite well. I haven’t tried it yet. I think the first few solves are free, but not sure how much it coast after that, although it’s quite cheap.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mr. Ed
Sent: March 22, 2020 9:15 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

 

Hi,

I went to a website on my state to send a message to the governor. When I was on the website I could fill out all the forms and write my message. But then at the bottom I had to put a check mark in the box I am not a robot. Then the captcha came up. Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha? By having the Captcha the website is not accessible. It also had an audio to use but I cannot use those as my hearing is not good enough. So how do these state websites or other sites get around using captchas and still meet the ADA guidelines to be accessible. Any idea’s or opinions on this?

Mr. Ed

Gerald Levy
 


And there is also Webvisum, which still works with Firefox 52 ESR portable.  I have found that if you use Google Chrome to check the "I am not a robot" check box, you can usually avoid the audio challenge and log in successfully.


Gerald



On 3/22/2020 10:13 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 09:57 PM, Marie wrote:
Rumola extension
I had forgotten about this extension, which will work under any Chromium-based browser.  It works well and you can choose to use it only when necessary.  Ninety-nine cents buys you 50 solving cycles while $1.95 buys 150 solving cycles.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

This country has socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor.

       ~ Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

Mike Pietruk
 

Here is something else that sites, where you are registered by your email
address, can use.
You sign in with your credentials and then a code is sent to your email.
Place the code in the box and then you're validated.
Once validated, some of these sites then allow subsequent logons without a
code as long as their cookie is valid.

Solving a math problem, however, is the most straightforward approach.

I suspect that these issues will grow and grow given spamming probably
increasing exponentially.

Marie
 

Yes, I especially like having the activation code sent to the phone, This works great for me and I have found more and more sites using this option.



Marie

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Pietruk
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 5:01 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Is there something else websites can use besides a captcha?

Here is something else that sites, where you are registered by your email
address, can use.
You sign in with your credentials and then a code is sent to your email.
Place the code in the box and then you're validated.
Once validated, some of these sites then allow subsequent logons without a
code as long as their cookie is valid.

Solving a math problem, however, is the most straightforward approach.

I suspect that these issues will grow and grow given spamming probably
increasing exponentially.