Topics

Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice


 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability. Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


Robert Kingett <kingettr@...>
 

What about opening up the group wiki for all members to contribute to? This groups wiki could be a valuable community resource.


 

Hi,

Agreed - the other day I looked at our wiki while editing an article on Windows 10 feature update comparisons. There are articles that needs to be updated, along with adding some crucial ones in the future. I’ll do something about the wiki next week.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Kingett
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 3:32 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

What about opening up the group wiki for all members to contribute to? This groups wiki could be a valuable community resource.


 

Hello Win10 Forum family,

Based on feedback (on here and offlist), hopefully few clarifications about the below letter:

  • Overall direction of the forum: Windows 10 and screen readers, specifically information and discussion on Windows 10 ecosystem for the benefit of and ties in with screen reader users and development. In this context, screen reader update announcements that include Windows 10 support and related features are welcome.
  • General questions and discussions on Windows 10: please continue to discuss those for benefit of people just getting started with Windows 10. Note however that the Win10 Forum is not really a general tech support forum, nor should be a place to provide links for illegal software and/or private Windows 10 product keys (there are publicly disclosed product keys noted by Microsoft used for troubleshooting purposes such as activation).
  • Topic specialization: only applies to my posts.

 

Other content remains the same: I encourage everyone to think about and search for information, not just asking on the list. Comments and feedback are appreciated.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability. Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

One more thing: wiki is publicly viewable, any member here can create and edit wiki pages.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:17 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 Forum family,

Based on feedback (on here and offlist), hopefully few clarifications about the below letter:

  • Overall direction of the forum: Windows 10 and screen readers, specifically information and discussion on Windows 10 ecosystem for the benefit of and ties in with screen reader users and development. In this context, screen reader update announcements that include Windows 10 support and related features are welcome.
  • General questions and discussions on Windows 10: please continue to discuss those for benefit of people just getting started with Windows 10. Note however that the Win10 Forum is not really a general tech support forum, nor should be a place to provide links for illegal software and/or private Windows 10 product keys (there are publicly disclosed product keys noted by Microsoft used for troubleshooting purposes such as activation).
  • Topic specialization: only applies to my posts.

 

Other content remains the same: I encourage everyone to think about and search for information, not just asking on the list. Comments and feedback are appreciated.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability. Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


Kevin
 

Excuse me what are wiki pages

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:18 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

One more thing: wiki is publicly viewable, any member here can create and edit wiki pages.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:17 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 Forum family,

Based on feedback (on here and offlist), hopefully few clarifications about the below letter:

  • Overall direction of the forum: Windows 10 and screen readers, specifically information and discussion on Windows 10 ecosystem for the benefit of and ties in with screen reader users and development. In this context, screen reader update announcements that include Windows 10 support and related features are welcome.
  • General questions and discussions on Windows 10: please continue to discuss those for benefit of people just getting started with Windows 10. Note however that the Win10 Forum is not really a general tech support forum, nor should be a place to provide links for illegal software and/or private Windows 10 product keys (there are publicly disclosed product keys noted by Microsoft used for troubleshooting purposes such as activation).
  • Topic specialization: only applies to my posts.

 

Other content remains the same: I encourage everyone to think about and search for information, not just asking on the list. Comments and feedback are appreciated.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability. Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

 


 

Hi,

A wiki is a collaborative repository of information (Wikipedia is a good example of this) that can be edited quickly.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:57 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Excuse me what are wiki pages

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:18 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

One more thing: wiki is publicly viewable, any member here can create and edit wiki pages.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:17 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 Forum family,

Based on feedback (on here and offlist), hopefully few clarifications about the below letter:

  • Overall direction of the forum: Windows 10 and screen readers, specifically information and discussion on Windows 10 ecosystem for the benefit of and ties in with screen reader users and development. In this context, screen reader update announcements that include Windows 10 support and related features are welcome.
  • General questions and discussions on Windows 10: please continue to discuss those for benefit of people just getting started with Windows 10. Note however that the Win10 Forum is not really a general tech support forum, nor should be a place to provide links for illegal software and/or private Windows 10 product keys (there are publicly disclosed product keys noted by Microsoft used for troubleshooting purposes such as activation).
  • Topic specialization: only applies to my posts.

 

Other content remains the same: I encourage everyone to think about and search for information, not just asking on the list. Comments and feedback are appreciated.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability. Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

 


Kevin
 

I’ve tried to edit Wikipedia articles no can do!

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:59 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

A wiki is a collaborative repository of information (Wikipedia is a good example of this) that can be edited quickly.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:57 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Excuse me what are wiki pages

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:18 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

One more thing: wiki is publicly viewable, any member here can create and edit wiki pages.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:17 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 Forum family,

Based on feedback (on here and offlist), hopefully few clarifications about the below letter:

  • Overall direction of the forum: Windows 10 and screen readers, specifically information and discussion on Windows 10 ecosystem for the benefit of and ties in with screen reader users and development. In this context, screen reader update announcements that include Windows 10 support and related features are welcome.
  • General questions and discussions on Windows 10: please continue to discuss those for benefit of people just getting started with Windows 10. Note however that the Win10 Forum is not really a general tech support forum, nor should be a place to provide links for illegal software and/or private Windows 10 product keys (there are publicly disclosed product keys noted by Microsoft used for troubleshooting purposes such as activation).
  • Topic specialization: only applies to my posts.

 

Other content remains the same: I encourage everyone to think about and search for information, not just asking on the list. Comments and feedback are appreciated.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability. Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 


 

Hi,

Usually you must register on Wikipedia to edit articles. The thing is, on Groups.IO, wiki can be edited if one can access the web interface while logged in.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 8:35 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

I’ve tried to edit Wikipedia articles no can do!

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:59 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

A wiki is a collaborative repository of information (Wikipedia is a good example of this) that can be edited quickly.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:57 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Excuse me what are wiki pages

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:18 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

One more thing: wiki is publicly viewable, any member here can create and edit wiki pages.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:17 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 Forum family,

Based on feedback (on here and offlist), hopefully few clarifications about the below letter:

  • Overall direction of the forum: Windows 10 and screen readers, specifically information and discussion on Windows 10 ecosystem for the benefit of and ties in with screen reader users and development. In this context, screen reader update announcements that include Windows 10 support and related features are welcome.
  • General questions and discussions on Windows 10: please continue to discuss those for benefit of people just getting started with Windows 10. Note however that the Win10 Forum is not really a general tech support forum, nor should be a place to provide links for illegal software and/or private Windows 10 product keys (there are publicly disclosed product keys noted by Microsoft used for troubleshooting purposes such as activation).
  • Topic specialization: only applies to my posts.

 

Other content remains the same: I encourage everyone to think about and search for information, not just asking on the list. Comments and feedback are appreciated.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability. Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 


Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Hi, Joseph. In your letter below, you cited the following URL:

 

win10.groups.io/g/search

 

When I put that URL into my browser, I got a "group not found" message.

 

Am I doing something wrong, or is this an invalid URL?

 

Thank you.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability. Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

A small typo.  The group search page is:  https://win10.groups.io/g/win10/search

That second "win10" between the "g" and "search" was missing.  These things happen.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

    ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


 

Hi,

Oops, typo – Brian sent out the correct link (sorry about that).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:23 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi, Joseph. In your letter below, you cited the following URL:

 

win10.groups.io/g/search

 

When I put that URL into my browser, I got a "group not found" message.

 

Am I doing something wrong, or is this an invalid URL?

 

Thank you.

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability. Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


Immigrant
 

I am not a registered member of Wikipedia, and I was able to edit Wikipedia articles. I saw my edits on the affected pages later. Those were minor edits, not the crucial conceptual or factual edits.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 11:36 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

Usually you must register on Wikipedia to edit articles. The thing is, on Groups.IO, wiki can be edited if one can access the web interface while logged in.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 8:35 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

I’ve tried to edit Wikipedia articles no can do!

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:59 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

A wiki is a collaborative repository of information (Wikipedia is a good example of this) that can be edited quickly.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:57 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Excuse me what are wiki pages

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:18 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

One more thing: wiki is publicly viewable, any member here can create and edit wiki pages.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:17 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 Forum family,

Based on feedback (on here and offlist), hopefully few clarifications about the below letter:

  • Overall direction of the forum: Windows 10 and screen readers, specifically information and discussion on Windows 10 ecosystem for the benefit of and ties in with screen reader users and development. In this context, screen reader update announcements that include Windows 10 support and related features are welcome.
  • General questions and discussions on Windows 10: please continue to discuss those for benefit of people just getting started with Windows 10. Note however that the Win10 Forum is not really a general tech support forum, nor should be a place to provide links for illegal software and/or private Windows 10 product keys (there are publicly disclosed product keys noted by Microsoft used for troubleshooting purposes such as activation).
  • Topic specialization: only applies to my posts.

 

Other content remains the same: I encourage everyone to think about and search for information, not just asking on the list Comments and feedback are appreciated.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 


Kevin
 

I think I did register I don’t remember.  Would the  groups IO llog in and pass be the same as the Wikipedia log in and pass

I don’t remember setting up a log in for groups IO

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 8:36 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

Usually you must register on Wikipedia to edit articles. The thing is, on Groups.IO, wiki can be edited if one can access the web interface while logged in.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 8:35 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

I’ve tried to edit Wikipedia articles no can do!

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:59 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

A wiki is a collaborative repository of information (Wikipedia is a good example of this) that can be edited quickly.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:57 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Excuse me what are wiki pages

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:18 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

One more thing: wiki is publicly viewable, any member here can create and edit wiki pages.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:17 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 Forum family,

Based on feedback (on here and offlist), hopefully few clarifications about the below letter:

  • Overall direction of the forum: Windows 10 and screen readers, specifically information and discussion on Windows 10 ecosystem for the benefit of and ties in with screen reader users and development. In this context, screen reader update announcements that include Windows 10 support and related features are welcome.
  • General questions and discussions on Windows 10: please continue to discuss those for benefit of people just getting started with Windows 10. Note however that the Win10 Forum is not really a general tech support forum, nor should be a place to provide links for illegal software and/or private Windows 10 product keys (there are publicly disclosed product keys noted by Microsoft used for troubleshooting purposes such as activation).
  • Topic specialization: only applies to my posts.

 

Other content remains the same: I encourage everyone to think about and search for information, not just asking on the list. Comments and feedback are appreciated.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability. Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

 


 

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 10:07 AM, Kevin wrote:

Would the  groups IO llog in and pass be the same as the Wikipedia log in and pass

I don’t remember setting up a log in for groups IO

No.  Wikipedia has absolutely no connection to Groups.io.  It's a completely separate entity.

And for those who've interacted with Groups.io strictly via e-mail, their Groups.io account does not yet have an assigned password to allow access via the web interface.  You have to set it up after the fact, since you can join groups via e-mail.

Establishing a Password for a Groups.io Account Originally Created Via Email

1.       Using your favorite web browser, navigate to https://groups.io/sendloginlink    

2.       You will be presented with a window that requests the e-mail address used to establish your Groups.io User ID and group subscription(s).  Enter that e-mail address.

3.      Navigate to the Email me a link to log in button.  Activate it.

4.      Check your e-mail for a message from Groups.io regarding establishing your password and follow the instructions contained in that message.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

    ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Immigrant
 

Groups.io has no relation to Wikipedia. Your Wikipedia login credentials may or may not be the same as your credentials for groups.io, it depends on whether you chose the same password for both. But the two services are not at all interconnected. Every group on groups.io has a page named Wiki, but it doesn't mean groups.io is related to Wikipedia. Wiki is just a term for a page that can be edited by users, and Wikipedia is the most well-known site with this standard, but wiki is used outside Wikipedia as well.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:07 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

I think I did register I don’t remember.  Would the  groups IO llog in and pass be the same as the Wikipedia log in and pass

I don’t remember setting up a log in for groups IO

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 8:36 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

Usually you must register on Wikipedia to edit articles. The thing is, on Groups.IO, wiki can be edited if one can access the web interface while logged in.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 8:35 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

I’ve tried to edit Wikipedia articles no can do!

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:59 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

A wiki is a collaborative repository of information (Wikipedia is a good example of this) that can be edited quickly.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:57 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Excuse me what are wiki pages

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:18 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hi,

One more thing: wiki is publicly viewable, any member here can create and edit wiki pages.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:17 PM
To: win10@...
Subject: [Special] Re: [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 Forum family,

Based on feedback (on here and offlist), hopefully few clarifications about the below letter:

  • Overall direction of the forum: Windows 10 and screen readers, specifically information and discussion on Windows 10 ecosystem for the benefit of and ties in with screen reader users and development. In this context, screen reader update announcements that include Windows 10 support and related features are welcome.
  • General questions and discussions on Windows 10: please continue to discuss those for benefit of people just getting started with Windows 10. Note however that the Win10 Forum is not really a general tech support forum, nor should be a place to provide links for illegal software and/or private Windows 10 product keys (there are publicly disclosed product keys noted by Microsoft used for troubleshooting purposes such as activation).
  • Topic specialization: only applies to my posts.

 

Other content remains the same: I encourage everyone to think about and search for information, not just asking on the list. Comments and feedback are appreciated.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [win10] Letter from the head list representative: reforming the net etiquette on posts and searching around the purpose of this forum cluster #AdminNotice

 

Hello Win10 forum family,

 

Like many of you, I’m grieving the death of George Floyd on Monday. As an Asian American person, I’m devastated that this has happened, particularly when other minorities asked people like me to help them. Although I cannot speak to the collective feelings of my people, I’m reading and listening to stories from black people and many other minorities so I can think about what to do next in support.

 

I also grieve over two other things: first concerning Insiders (later), second, the subject of this letter, which is about net etiquette on this forum pertaining to the purpose of this forum cluster. Given what happened this week on this forum cluster, I, based on council from other leaders, thought about how to proceed in reforming our etiquette, particularly when it comes to posts and searching for information.

 

Back in October 2015 when Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users began, I set out three pillars for us to follow: unity, expertise, service. We are all united under Windows 10 and screen readers, we are called upon to share our expertise, and we are here to serve the wider community. Despite many feature updates, screen reader market changes, and so many topic changes, these three pillars remain.

 

Of these three pillars, the first one is our guiding principle: the overall purpose of Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users is unity under Windows 10 and screen reading technologies. We do talk about many aspects of Windows 10: feature updates, cumulative updates, drivers, app accessibility, Microsoft Store, Chromium Edge, devices, and many other things. But we talk about all these under a unifying lens: screen reading and accessibility. This principle hasn’t changed, and unless this changes, this is our guiding principle. This is more important now that we are getting reports of early adopters trying out May 2020 Update, and even more so for the foreseeable future as Windows 7 and 8.x users migrate to Windows 10.

 

To that end, I, together with the forum leadership people, advise that we reform our practices, specifically etiquette on posts and searching for information. For seasoned users, whenever you feel you need to post something, go through the following checklist, although new users are also encouraged to follow them:

 

  1. Ask yourself if you can search for what you are looking for. Or rather, search around for information first. Not only this will let you practice search engine skills, it’ll also lead you to unexpected answers, especially ones that are general enough to apply in many situations (regardless of which screen reader you are using and whether or not you use a screen reader).
  2. If you believe what you are looking for is Windows 10 and screen reader related (both must be yes), go to win10.groups.io/g/search and type what you are looking for into the search box. You’ll then be presented with a list of results. Sometimes you’ll get exactly what you are looking for, sometimes you’ll get the exact answer you’re looking for in older posts, and sometimes you’ll get something that may help you make a connection.
  3. Only after searching for things and not finding results should you think (not post) about what you are about to post. This is where you need to ask, “is my post relevant to the purpose of this forum?”.
  4. Only after you say yes to item 3 should you post. As always, please make sure that subject and content match, and include Windows 10 release you are using so people can direct you to more accurate answers.

 

All of these are grounded in an important thing: think, think, and think again. Thinking and searching before posting can improve not only your skills on the Internet as you navigate around (and improve screen reader skills), it also helps with forum archive management – many general answers on Windows 10 are found on this forum and hundreds of others, the reason for thinking and searching first. The archive also contains specialized topics pertaining to the overall purpose of this forum cluster, including screen reader compatibility, tips on navigating Windows 10 and apps with screen readers, important advisories for screen reader users as they use certain Windows 10 features, and hundreds of different topics that we’ve built for over five years.

 

As a first step in this reform, effective June 1, 2020 (taking full effect on June Patch Tuesday), I will take my hands off more general Windows 10 questions (because others can answer these, but more importantly, plenty of answers exist here and elsewhere). I plan to specialize on the following topics:

 

  • Admin notices that will affect the overall direction and guidance on this forum cluster. These admin notices posted on parent Win10 forum, unless otherwise specified, applies to both the parent forum and Insiders subgroup.
  • Cumulative updates
  • Windows 10 development briefings
  • Insider Preview build announcements that will affect the overall direction of this forum
  • Screen reader advisories for upcoming feature updates and certain Windows 10 features

 

At the same time, I’ll be advising people to search for things because many topics brought in here have answers here and elsewhere.

 

Special notice for Windows Insiders (both here and members of Insiders subgroup): I’ll send out the “mystery post” around June Patch Tuesday. To give you a small hint, think about why you love to try out new things.

 

It is time for reform. We can do better as a forum. The days where you can get more general answers on Windows 10 via this forum cluster is way behind us (relevant in early days of Windows 10). The days of not being able to search for exact or not exact answers on Windows 10 on this forum cluster is way behind us thanks to advances in Groups.IO interface accessibility and usability. Although new users will still need guidance, for seasoned users, the best thing we can do on general Windows 10 topics is search, eat, and think about vast information out there. The days of worrying about information blackout for screen readers (for app accessibility inside Windows 10 and information retrieval) is passing on; we need to train advocates, not just answer questions. And this reform on net etiquette starts today, beginning with your head list representative.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

 


 

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 01:58 PM, Immigrant wrote:
Your Wikipedia login credentials may or may not be the same as your credentials for groups.io, it depends on whether you chose the same password for both.
Thanks for that; it's what I should have said.   Accuracy is important, really important, when technical issues or login credentials are being discussed.  The blanket, "No," I originally offered did not take into account something that could be entirely possible.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

    ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore