locked Request for comments/proposal: screen reader compatibility notices for unsupported screen readers #poll #wineyes
Hi everyone,
Given the recent news about end of sales for Window-Eyes in North America, I thought it’d be best to ask you the following question:
If a screen reader becomes unsupported, should this forum continue to promote its use for a while, and should Windows 10 release advisories be sent regarding it? If so, for how long?
Basically, I’d like to gather votes on whether we should let this forum drop discussion of Window-Eyes after September 2018 unless something drastic happens. Feel free to debate this proposal throughout this weekend, and the vote (which should be sent to the owner address) will close on June 1, 2017 at 23:59 PM Pacific. Thank you. Cheers, Joseph
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Hi, One major addition: this is considered both a policy vote and an opinion poll. If this proposal is adopted, it’ll take effect in September 2017 once this forum cluster enters Fall Creators Update era and it’ll set precedence for future situations like the one described below. At the same time, it is an opinion poll to gauge overall responses to recent events. I’d like to especially request Window-Eyes users to debate and vote on this proposal. For those new to this forum: unlike other mailing lists where absolute policies are set by owners, this forum goes through community voting process. The leadership team cannot override poll results except for some emergency cases. It is implemented this way so leaders can receive feedback from the membership community when making policy decisions and for members to take part in shaping this forum’s policies and future. Any policy changes approved or rejected by members of the parent forum applies to all subgroups unless noted otherwise. In case of some policies, there might be slight differences in how subgroups interpret them. Debates on proposals are always welcome on the list (but please do it with civility); votes should be sent to win10+owner@groups.io. Any votes sent to the forum will not count, nor change of heart (unless reasons are justified); to keep impartiality, I myself (as the head list representative and the vote counter) will not vote. Cheers, Joseph
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 1:51 PM To: win10@win10.groups.io Subject: [win10] Request for comments/proposal: screen reader compatibility notices for unsupported screen readers #Poll #WinEyes
Hi everyone,
Given the recent news about end of sales for Window-Eyes in North America, I thought it’d be best to ask you the following question:
If a screen reader becomes unsupported, should this forum continue to promote its use for a while, and should Windows 10 release advisories be sent regarding it? If so, for how long?
Basically, I’d like to gather votes on whether we should let this forum drop discussion of Window-Eyes after September 2018 unless something drastic happens. Feel free to debate this proposal throughout this weekend, and the vote (which should be sent to the owner address) will close on June 1, 2017 at 23:59 PM Pacific. Thank you. Cheers, Joseph
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Given the tendency for users to clutch their favorite programs to their metaphorical bosoms, holding on to them much like some of our close hominid relatives do their deceased infants, it's only appropriate to allow them to continue to be talked about for some period of time after support ends.
I wouldn't call that "promoting" the use of anything. It's more like grief counseling and slowly easing someone into letting go. Questions tend to disappear as the user base transitions to alternatives anyway. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332 Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
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David & his pack of dogs <myguidedogis@...>
Well, as someone who has jumped ship to JAWS from Window eyes, I vote No. End the support of W E after September,2018. Not to raise the conspiracy flag but, now I know why I’ve been having trouble with W E the last few months.
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 1:51 PM To: win10@win10.groups.io Subject: [win10] Request for comments/proposal: screen reader compatibility notices for unsupported screen readers #Poll #WinEyes
Hi everyone,
Given the recent news about end of sales for Window-Eyes in North America, I thought it’d be best to ask you the following question:
If a screen reader becomes unsupported, should this forum continue to promote its use for a while, and should Windows 10 release advisories be sent regarding it? If so, for how long?
Basically, I’d like to gather votes on whether we should let this forum drop discussion of Window-Eyes after September 2018 unless something drastic happens. Feel free to debate this proposal throughout this weekend, and the vote (which should be sent to the owner address) will close on June 1, 2017 at 23:59 PM Pacific. Thank you. Cheers, Joseph
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David & his pack of dogs <myguidedogis@...>
Well, using that metaphor, let’s just talk about it for decades like some people that I personally know that complain about people that have long since died. They refuse to move on and live in the past because it is easier to deal with psychiatrically, then moving on with one’s life. Hows that for a hot topic? Smile. Seriously, Like mentioned before, there has to be an end date or you could have these people that refuse to move on, talking about it for years.
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Given the tendency for users to clutch their favorite programs to their metaphorical bosoms, holding on to them much like some of our close hominid relatives do their deceased infants, it's only appropriate to allow them to continue to be talked about for some period of time after support ends. Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
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Well in my opinion, we should keep supporting the program as long as users use it up to the point where it is no longer usable, advisable to be used, etc.
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On 27/05/2017 8:51 a.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi everyone,
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Michael Massey <massey52@...>
Hi, Shaun. While I am not Joseph, I hate to burst your bubble, but I have a
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sneaking suspicion that even though you voted on Joseph's proposal that your vote may not count because as he instructed, messages are to be sent to the list owner e-mail address provided in each and every e-mail sent to this group. On another note, this question has been bugging me every time I come across the word ofcause. I know that you live in Austrailia, so this begs me to ask the question. Is the word ofcause used in Austrailia for the two words of course? Honestly, Shaun, I'm not picking on you, but every time I come across the word ofcause, I do a double take. I thought that the words are of course. Thanks. Mike M P.S. If you feel that I am being knit picky, I apologize. I was thinking that the use of the word ofcause for the two words of course is an Austrailian English use of the word ofcause. .
-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 3:50 AM To: win10@win10.groups.io Subject: Re: [win10] Request for comments/proposal: screen reader compatibility notices for unsupported screen readers #Poll #WinEyes Well in my opinion, we should keep supporting the program as long as users use it up to the point where it is no longer usable, advisable to be used, etc. On 27/05/2017 8:51 a.m., Joseph Lee wrote: Hi everyone,
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On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 01:51 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:
If a screen reader becomes unsupported, should this forum continue to promote its use for a while, and should Windows 10 release advisories be sent regarding it? If so, for how long? I would seriously like clarification on what, precisely, you mean by "continue to promote its use" and "Windows 10 release advisories be sent regarding it." Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
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Hi, Essentially, statements such as:
And similar statements. The procedure I had in mind was:
Hence September 2018 was chosen. Cheers, Joseph
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 01:51 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:
I would seriously like clarification on what, precisely, you mean by "continue to promote its use" and "Windows 10 release advisories be sent regarding it." Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
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Joseph,
Then I guess, and I say this without malice, yours is a solution in search of a problem. I have yet to see discussions of unsupported software not die an entirely natural death as the distance between the end of support and the current date grows larger. We have never had what I consider to be significant volume of discussion regarding Windows Eyes before the end of support was announced and most of the current traffic surrounds transitioning to something else. Once those who are wise enough to jump ship while most others are doing the same have done so, discussion volume will decrease accordingly. I do not think there is any reason to believe that any formal policy needs to be adopted. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332 Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
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Hi, Hmmm, imagine more screen readers becoming unsupported, hence proposing the orderly exit framework. Cheers, Joseph
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Joseph, Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
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On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 09:28 am, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hmmm, imagine more screen readers becoming unsupported, hence proposing the orderly exit framework. Screen readers, e-mail clients, web browsers . . . Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
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Hi, On one hand, yes, I understand what’s up. On the other hand, some would hold special status for screen reading technologies, hence the dilemma. Cheers, Joseph
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 09:28 am, Joseph Lee wrote:
Screen readers, e-mail clients, web browsers . . . Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
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On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 09:36 am, Joseph Lee wrote:
On the other hand, some would hold special status for screen reading technologies Which, to make it clear with regard to my own position, I do not. Dead software is dead software. Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
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Lino Morales
I think WIN Eyes tpic should be dropped in SEPT. As Patrick
Perdue used to say, "good boof and 73's". In in this case to WIN
Eyes. I'm very dissappointed the newest FS Cast didn't touch on
it's demise.
On 5/26/2017 5:28 PM, David & his
pack of dogs wrote:
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