Topics

Musings from head list representative: Windows 10, three years later #AdminNotice


 

Hi all,

 

First, happy early third birthday to Windows 10! As a Windows Insider and a screen reader code contributor, I’m proud of the work all of us (Microsoft, screen reader vendors, users, Insiders and many others) have been doing to make Windows 10 ecosystem an accessible space for all. Although there are places where accessibility isn’t there yet, I’m sure it’ll improve as time goes by. Also, I’m glad to see Microsoft is listening to feedback from users, which is a huge culture shift from the old days, particularly when it comes to accessibility feedback with Narrator and many others.

 

As of today, the Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users boasts over 500 members, roughly divided into the following groups: users (vast majority), Windows Insiders (including members of the Insiders subgroup), screen reader vendor representatives and developers, assistive technology trainers and observers, and Microsoft staff (including engineers working on Narrator and other Windows 10 features). This is a stark contrast to four years ago when this forum began (on another list provider with a different forum title) where there was no Microsoft staff and membership was composed of users of one screen reader. Compare that to today where we have all screen readers represented (ones that support Windows 10, that is), and we have Microsoft people who are willing to channel user feedback.

 

As much as Windows 10 has improved in the last three years, there are areas that still need improving. Among these are accessibility of more universal apps on Microsoft Store (part of this comes from attitudes of developers), UI Automation improvements, Edge improvements and so on. Of course, we can’t forget that part of what makes Windows 10 accessible is due to attitudes of screen reader vendors (including Microsoft and Narrator), especially as they listen to feedback from users and do something about them. More recently, Microsoft’s attention to gamers (Xbox One family) are being noticed, but we have long ways to go before we can say games are accessible on Xbox One family. To some extent, same can be said about Mixed Reality. Ultimately, what will power Windows 10’s continued march towards accessibility will be feedback, feedback, and more feedback, as well as change of attitudes from developers.

 

In regards to what the future holds for this ecosystem, some exciting things are happening or could come about in 2019. The next feature update after Redstone 5 is being tested by a very select few, and emphasis on machine learning is being baked into Windows 10 (the most notable one being ability to detect when you just left your “seat” to grab a drink, and in those instances, Windows will try its best to not install updates). On the release front, Redstone 5 and Windows Server 2019 are being prepared to meet you in a few weeks, and work is being done to put finishing touches on the next feature update.

 

A few reminders… again:

 

  • To users: keep your feedback coming, and don’t be afraid to try out new things, including new apps, new experiences and what not.
  • To screen reader developers: please continue to listen to users and respond appropriately via patches and such,.
  • To Microsoft people: keep up the good work you’ve been doing for a while, and please never lose sight of the fact that users and their feedback matter a lot to success of Windows 10 ecosystem.
  • To Windows Insiders: by now you should realize that your words and actions (especially feedback) matters to success of this ecosystem. Therefore I’d like to ask you once again to serve as a voice for other users as you test new builds and send feedback. Also, if you haven’t, subscribe to Insiders subgroup, as this parent forum is mostly dedicated to discussion of stable Windows 10 releases with occasional posts on latest developments.

 

Postscript: although I do know that I’m an effective (and sometimes not so effective) forum leader, I believe it might be time to pass on my torch to the next group of enthusiasts. I’ll explain what I just said as part of the State of the List letter to be sent in October.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


Lino Morales
 

Excellent post Joseph. I know a lot of people around the world can’t afford to upgrade to WIN 10, but I can’t stress enough to those of us who have it to please by all means use that Feedback Hub app. I seem to not be able to convince folks to do this. There are those who refuse for whatever excuse to stay with WIN 7 or older. They are going to get off those trains eventually. As I’ve said on other lists etc. before this is the new MS and they indeed do listen to our feedback. If you are stuck in WIN 7 or older land sorry, but I don’t know of a way if even if there is to send MS feedback.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> on behalf of Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 12:28:59 PM
To: 'Win 10'
Subject: [win10] Musings from head list representative: Windows 10, three years later #AdminNotice
 

Hi all,

 

First, happy early third birthday to Windows 10! As a Windows Insider and a screen reader code contributor, I’m proud of the work all of us (Microsoft, screen reader vendors, users, Insiders and many others) have been doing to make Windows 10 ecosystem an accessible space for all. Although there are places where accessibility isn’t there yet, I’m sure it’ll improve as time goes by. Also, I’m glad to see Microsoft is listening to feedback from users, which is a huge culture shift from the old days, particularly when it comes to accessibility feedback with Narrator and many others.

 

As of today, the Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users boasts over 500 members, roughly divided into the following groups: users (vast majority), Windows Insiders (including members of the Insiders subgroup), screen reader vendor representatives and developers, assistive technology trainers and observers, and Microsoft staff (including engineers working on Narrator and other Windows 10 features). This is a stark contrast to four years ago when this forum began (on another list provider with a different forum title) where there was no Microsoft staff and membership was composed of users of one screen reader. Compare that to today where we have all screen readers represented (ones that support Windows 10, that is), and we have Microsoft people who are willing to channel user feedback.

 

As much as Windows 10 has improved in the last three years, there are areas that still need improving. Among these are accessibility of more universal apps on Microsoft Store (part of this comes from attitudes of developers), UI Automation improvements, Edge improvements and so on. Of course, we can’t forget that part of what makes Windows 10 accessible is due to attitudes of screen reader vendors (including Microsoft and Narrator), especially as they listen to feedback from users and do something about them. More recently, Microsoft’s attention to gamers (Xbox One family) are being noticed, but we have long ways to go before we can say games are accessible on Xbox One family. To some extent, same can be said about Mixed Reality. Ultimately, what will power Windows 10’s continued march towards accessibility will be feedback, feedback, and more feedback, as well as change of attitudes from developers.

 

In regards to what the future holds for this ecosystem, some exciting things are happening or could come about in 2019. The next feature update after Redstone 5 is being tested by a very select few, and emphasis on machine learning is being baked into Windows 10 (the most notable one being ability to detect when you just left your “seat” to grab a drink, and in those instances, Windows will try its best to not install updates). On the release front, Redstone 5 and Windows Server 2019 are being prepared to meet you in a few weeks, and work is being done to put finishing touches on the next feature update.

 

A few reminders… again:

 

  • To users: keep your feedback coming, and don’t be afraid to try out new things, including new apps, new experiences and what not.
  • To screen reader developers: please continue to listen to users and respond appropriately via patches and such,.
  • To Microsoft people: keep up the good work you’ve been doing for a while, and please never lose sight of the fact that users and their feedback matter a lot to success of Windows 10 ecosystem.
  • To Windows Insiders: by now you should realize that your words and actions (especially feedback) matters to success of this ecosystem. Therefore I’d like to ask you once again to serve as a voice for other users as you test new builds and send feedback. Also, if you haven’t, subscribe to Insiders subgroup, as this parent forum is mostly dedicated to discussion of stable Windows 10 releases with occasional posts on latest developments.

 

Postscript: although I do know that I’m an effective (and sometimes not so effective) forum leader, I believe it might be time to pass on my torch to the next group of enthusiasts. I’ll explain what I just said as part of the State of the List letter to be sent in October.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


brandon T <brandongold98@...>
 

Hi,

I personally am having some issues with feedback...

I've sent in feedback on a really bad problem with Narrator that was
introduced in 1803, and it even slipped it's way into the final 1803.

Now on rs5, they went through their first bug bash and I tried to have
them take notice of it, and they asked me some questions about it, and
several builds have passed since then and there's still no fix. For
those wondering, it's even worse now on rs5. Originally, combo boxes
such as the shut down windows dialog don't read when you change them
with the arrow keys with Narrator starting on 1803, and now, sliders
in areas such as control panels have the same problem with rs5!

One of these items has 7 upvotes on it, and I sent them another tweet
yesterday, targeting WindowsInsider, MSFTEnable and JeffreySPetty and
additionally exchanging direct messages with someone.

So I feel like sometimes my feedback isn't always seen. I don't expect
fixes right away, but I've been trying to work on this feedback for
about a month now, and to see that it's even gotten worse now instead
of better really concerns me.

If there's anything I can do differently when giving feedback please
feel free to let me know.

I did also use the Feedback Hub app.

Thanks,

Brandon

On 7/28/18, Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com> wrote:
Excellent post Joseph. I know a lot of people around the world can’t afford
to upgrade to WIN 10, but I can’t stress enough to those of us who have it
to please by all means use that Feedback Hub app. I seem to not be able to
convince folks to do this. There are those who refuse for whatever excuse to
stay with WIN 7 or older. They are going to get off those trains eventually.
As I’ve said on other lists etc. before this is the new MS and they indeed
do listen to our feedback. If you are stuck in WIN 7 or older land sorry,
but I don’t know of a way if even if there is to send MS feedback.

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10

________________________________
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> on behalf of Joseph Lee
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 12:28:59 PM
To: 'Win 10'
Subject: [win10] Musings from head list representative: Windows 10, three
years later #AdminNotice

Hi all,

First, happy early third birthday to Windows 10! As a Windows Insider and a
screen reader code contributor, I’m proud of the work all of us (Microsoft,
screen reader vendors, users, Insiders and many others) have been doing to
make Windows 10 ecosystem an accessible space for all. Although there are
places where accessibility isn’t there yet, I’m sure it’ll improve as time
goes by. Also, I’m glad to see Microsoft is listening to feedback from
users, which is a huge culture shift from the old days, particularly when it
comes to accessibility feedback with Narrator and many others.

As of today, the Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users boasts over 500
members, roughly divided into the following groups: users (vast majority),
Windows Insiders (including members of the Insiders subgroup), screen reader
vendor representatives and developers, assistive technology trainers and
observers, and Microsoft staff (including engineers working on Narrator and
other Windows 10 features). This is a stark contrast to four years ago when
this forum began (on another list provider with a different forum title)
where there was no Microsoft staff and membership was composed of users of
one screen reader. Compare that to today where we have all screen readers
represented (ones that support Windows 10, that is), and we have Microsoft
people who are willing to channel user feedback.

As much as Windows 10 has improved in the last three years, there are areas
that still need improving. Among these are accessibility of more universal
apps on Microsoft Store (part of this comes from attitudes of developers),
UI Automation improvements, Edge improvements and so on. Of course, we can’t
forget that part of what makes Windows 10 accessible is due to attitudes of
screen reader vendors (including Microsoft and Narrator), especially as they
listen to feedback from users and do something about them. More recently,
Microsoft’s attention to gamers (Xbox One family) are being noticed, but we
have long ways to go before we can say games are accessible on Xbox One
family. To some extent, same can be said about Mixed Reality. Ultimately,
what will power Windows 10’s continued march towards accessibility will be
feedback, feedback, and more feedback, as well as change of attitudes from
developers.

In regards to what the future holds for this ecosystem, some exciting things
are happening or could come about in 2019. The next feature update after
Redstone 5 is being tested by a very select few, and emphasis on machine
learning is being baked into Windows 10 (the most notable one being ability
to detect when you just left your “seat” to grab a drink, and in those
instances, Windows will try its best to not install updates). On the release
front, Redstone 5 and Windows Server 2019 are being prepared to meet you in
a few weeks, and work is being done to put finishing touches on the next
feature update.

A few reminders… again:


* To users: keep your feedback coming, and don’t be afraid to try out
new things, including new apps, new experiences and what not.
* To screen reader developers: please continue to listen to users and
respond appropriately via patches and such,.
* To Microsoft people: keep up the good work you’ve been doing for a
while, and please never lose sight of the fact that users and their feedback
matter a lot to success of Windows 10 ecosystem.
* To Windows Insiders: by now you should realize that your words and
actions (especially feedback) matters to success of this ecosystem.
Therefore I’d like to ask you once again to serve as a voice for other users
as you test new builds and send feedback. Also, if you haven’t, subscribe to
Insiders subgroup, as this parent forum is mostly dedicated to discussion of
stable Windows 10 releases with occasional posts on latest developments.

Postscript: although I do know that I’m an effective (and sometimes not so
effective) forum leader, I believe it might be time to pass on my torch to
the next group of enthusiasts. I’ll explain what I just said as part of the
State of the List letter to be sent in October.

Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph




--
“Be what you are. This is the first step towards becoming better than you are.”
– J. C. Hare & A. W. Hare


Devin Prater
 

Brandon, did you record the steps to reproduce the issue when sending the feedback?

Devin Prater
Assistive Technology Instructor certified by World Services for the Blind
JAWS certified

On Jul 28, 2018, at 2:41 PM, brandon T <brandongold98@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I personally am having some issues with feedback...

I've sent in feedback on a really bad problem with Narrator that was
introduced in 1803, and it even slipped it's way into the final 1803.

Now on rs5, they went through their first bug bash and I tried to have
them take notice of it, and they asked me some questions about it, and
several builds have passed since then and there's still no fix. For
those wondering, it's even worse now on rs5. Originally, combo boxes
such as the shut down windows dialog don't read when you change them
with the arrow keys with Narrator starting on 1803, and now, sliders
in areas such as control panels have the same problem with rs5!

One of these items has 7 upvotes on it, and I sent them another tweet
yesterday, targeting WindowsInsider, MSFTEnable and JeffreySPetty and
additionally exchanging direct messages with someone.

So I feel like sometimes my feedback isn't always seen. I don't expect
fixes right away, but I've been trying to work on this feedback for
about a month now, and to see that it's even gotten worse now instead
of better really concerns me.

If there's anything I can do differently when giving feedback please
feel free to let me know.

I did also use the Feedback Hub app.

Thanks,

Brandon

On 7/28/18, Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com> wrote:
Excellent post Joseph. I know a lot of people around the world can’t afford
to upgrade to WIN 10, but I can’t stress enough to those of us who have it
to please by all means use that Feedback Hub app. I seem to not be able to
convince folks to do this. There are those who refuse for whatever excuse to
stay with WIN 7 or older. They are going to get off those trains eventually.
As I’ve said on other lists etc. before this is the new MS and they indeed
do listen to our feedback. If you are stuck in WIN 7 or older land sorry,
but I don’t know of a way if even if there is to send MS feedback.

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10

________________________________
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> on behalf of Joseph Lee
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 12:28:59 PM
To: 'Win 10'
Subject: [win10] Musings from head list representative: Windows 10, three
years later #AdminNotice

Hi all,

First, happy early third birthday to Windows 10! As a Windows Insider and a
screen reader code contributor, I’m proud of the work all of us (Microsoft,
screen reader vendors, users, Insiders and many others) have been doing to
make Windows 10 ecosystem an accessible space for all. Although there are
places where accessibility isn’t there yet, I’m sure it’ll improve as time
goes by. Also, I’m glad to see Microsoft is listening to feedback from
users, which is a huge culture shift from the old days, particularly when it
comes to accessibility feedback with Narrator and many others.

As of today, the Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users boasts over 500
members, roughly divided into the following groups: users (vast majority),
Windows Insiders (including members of the Insiders subgroup), screen reader
vendor representatives and developers, assistive technology trainers and
observers, and Microsoft staff (including engineers working on Narrator and
other Windows 10 features). This is a stark contrast to four years ago when
this forum began (on another list provider with a different forum title)
where there was no Microsoft staff and membership was composed of users of
one screen reader. Compare that to today where we have all screen readers
represented (ones that support Windows 10, that is), and we have Microsoft
people who are willing to channel user feedback.

As much as Windows 10 has improved in the last three years, there are areas
that still need improving. Among these are accessibility of more universal
apps on Microsoft Store (part of this comes from attitudes of developers),
UI Automation improvements, Edge improvements and so on. Of course, we can’t
forget that part of what makes Windows 10 accessible is due to attitudes of
screen reader vendors (including Microsoft and Narrator), especially as they
listen to feedback from users and do something about them. More recently,
Microsoft’s attention to gamers (Xbox One family) are being noticed, but we
have long ways to go before we can say games are accessible on Xbox One
family. To some extent, same can be said about Mixed Reality. Ultimately,
what will power Windows 10’s continued march towards accessibility will be
feedback, feedback, and more feedback, as well as change of attitudes from
developers.

In regards to what the future holds for this ecosystem, some exciting things
are happening or could come about in 2019. The next feature update after
Redstone 5 is being tested by a very select few, and emphasis on machine
learning is being baked into Windows 10 (the most notable one being ability
to detect when you just left your “seat” to grab a drink, and in those
instances, Windows will try its best to not install updates). On the release
front, Redstone 5 and Windows Server 2019 are being prepared to meet you in
a few weeks, and work is being done to put finishing touches on the next
feature update.

A few reminders… again:


* To users: keep your feedback coming, and don’t be afraid to try out
new things, including new apps, new experiences and what not.
* To screen reader developers: please continue to listen to users and
respond appropriately via patches and such,.
* To Microsoft people: keep up the good work you’ve been doing for a
while, and please never lose sight of the fact that users and their feedback
matter a lot to success of Windows 10 ecosystem.
* To Windows Insiders: by now you should realize that your words and
actions (especially feedback) matters to success of this ecosystem.
Therefore I’d like to ask you once again to serve as a voice for other users
as you test new builds and send feedback. Also, if you haven’t, subscribe to
Insiders subgroup, as this parent forum is mostly dedicated to discussion of
stable Windows 10 releases with occasional posts on latest developments.

Postscript: although I do know that I’m an effective (and sometimes not so
effective) forum leader, I believe it might be time to pass on my torch to
the next group of enthusiasts. I’ll explain what I just said as part of the
State of the List letter to be sent in October.

Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph





--
“Be what you are. This is the first step towards becoming better than you are.”
– J. C. Hare & A. W. Hare



brandon T <brandongold98@...>
 

Hi,

I did in my piece of feedback, and the other person that sent in
feedback appeared to, as well.

Thanks,

Brandon

On 7/29/18, Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater@gmail.com> wrote:
Brandon, did you record the steps to reproduce the issue when sending the
feedback?

Devin Prater
Assistive Technology Instructor certified by World Services for the Blind
JAWS certified

On Jul 28, 2018, at 2:41 PM, brandon T <brandongold98@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I personally am having some issues with feedback...

I've sent in feedback on a really bad problem with Narrator that was
introduced in 1803, and it even slipped it's way into the final 1803.

Now on rs5, they went through their first bug bash and I tried to have
them take notice of it, and they asked me some questions about it, and
several builds have passed since then and there's still no fix. For
those wondering, it's even worse now on rs5. Originally, combo boxes
such as the shut down windows dialog don't read when you change them
with the arrow keys with Narrator starting on 1803, and now, sliders
in areas such as control panels have the same problem with rs5!

One of these items has 7 upvotes on it, and I sent them another tweet
yesterday, targeting WindowsInsider, MSFTEnable and JeffreySPetty and
additionally exchanging direct messages with someone.

So I feel like sometimes my feedback isn't always seen. I don't expect
fixes right away, but I've been trying to work on this feedback for
about a month now, and to see that it's even gotten worse now instead
of better really concerns me.

If there's anything I can do differently when giving feedback please
feel free to let me know.

I did also use the Feedback Hub app.

Thanks,

Brandon

On 7/28/18, Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com> wrote:
Excellent post Joseph. I know a lot of people around the world can’t
afford
to upgrade to WIN 10, but I can’t stress enough to those of us who have
it
to please by all means use that Feedback Hub app. I seem to not be able
to
convince folks to do this. There are those who refuse for whatever excuse
to
stay with WIN 7 or older. They are going to get off those trains
eventually.
As I’ve said on other lists etc. before this is the new MS and they
indeed
do listen to our feedback. If you are stuck in WIN 7 or older land
sorry,
but I don’t know of a way if even if there is to send MS feedback.

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows
10

________________________________
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> on behalf of Joseph
Lee
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 12:28:59 PM
To: 'Win 10'
Subject: [win10] Musings from head list representative: Windows 10,
three
years later #AdminNotice

Hi all,

First, happy early third birthday to Windows 10! As a Windows Insider and
a
screen reader code contributor, I’m proud of the work all of us
(Microsoft,
screen reader vendors, users, Insiders and many others) have been doing
to
make Windows 10 ecosystem an accessible space for all. Although there
are
places where accessibility isn’t there yet, I’m sure it’ll improve as
time
goes by. Also, I’m glad to see Microsoft is listening to feedback from
users, which is a huge culture shift from the old days, particularly when
it
comes to accessibility feedback with Narrator and many others.

As of today, the Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users boasts over 500
members, roughly divided into the following groups: users (vast
majority),
Windows Insiders (including members of the Insiders subgroup), screen
reader
vendor representatives and developers, assistive technology trainers and
observers, and Microsoft staff (including engineers working on Narrator
and
other Windows 10 features). This is a stark contrast to four years ago
when
this forum began (on another list provider with a different forum title)
where there was no Microsoft staff and membership was composed of users
of
one screen reader. Compare that to today where we have all screen
readers
represented (ones that support Windows 10, that is), and we have
Microsoft
people who are willing to channel user feedback.

As much as Windows 10 has improved in the last three years, there are
areas
that still need improving. Among these are accessibility of more
universal
apps on Microsoft Store (part of this comes from attitudes of
developers),
UI Automation improvements, Edge improvements and so on. Of course, we
can’t
forget that part of what makes Windows 10 accessible is due to attitudes
of
screen reader vendors (including Microsoft and Narrator), especially as
they
listen to feedback from users and do something about them. More
recently,
Microsoft’s attention to gamers (Xbox One family) are being noticed, but
we
have long ways to go before we can say games are accessible on Xbox One
family. To some extent, same can be said about Mixed Reality.
Ultimately,
what will power Windows 10’s continued march towards accessibility will
be
feedback, feedback, and more feedback, as well as change of attitudes
from
developers.

In regards to what the future holds for this ecosystem, some exciting
things
are happening or could come about in 2019. The next feature update after
Redstone 5 is being tested by a very select few, and emphasis on machine
learning is being baked into Windows 10 (the most notable one being
ability
to detect when you just left your “seat” to grab a drink, and in those
instances, Windows will try its best to not install updates). On the
release
front, Redstone 5 and Windows Server 2019 are being prepared to meet you
in
a few weeks, and work is being done to put finishing touches on the next
feature update.

A few reminders… again:


* To users: keep your feedback coming, and don’t be afraid to try out
new things, including new apps, new experiences and what not.
* To screen reader developers: please continue to listen to users and
respond appropriately via patches and such,.
* To Microsoft people: keep up the good work you’ve been doing for a
while, and please never lose sight of the fact that users and their
feedback
matter a lot to success of Windows 10 ecosystem.
* To Windows Insiders: by now you should realize that your words and
actions (especially feedback) matters to success of this ecosystem.
Therefore I’d like to ask you once again to serve as a voice for other
users
as you test new builds and send feedback. Also, if you haven’t, subscribe
to
Insiders subgroup, as this parent forum is mostly dedicated to discussion
of
stable Windows 10 releases with occasional posts on latest developments.

Postscript: although I do know that I’m an effective (and sometimes not
so
effective) forum leader, I believe it might be time to pass on my torch
to
the next group of enthusiasts. I’ll explain what I just said as part of
the
State of the List letter to be sent in October.

Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph





--
“Be what you are. This is the first step towards becoming better than you
are.”
– J. C. Hare & A. W. Hare




--
“Be what you are. This is the first step towards becoming better than you are.”
– J. C. Hare & A. W. Hare