Topics

Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates continue in the future? #proposal

 

Hi all,

 

A few weeks ago I and some members of the forum had a discussion regarding critical periods for feature updates, specifically in regards to keeping that tradition or not. Due to impending release of Version 1803 at that time, the full forum-wide vote was delayed until now. Feel free to discuss the below proposal here, and if you’d like to vote, please do so offlist (full instructions will be given below):

 

Whenever feature updates such as Version 1803 were released, the Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users entered what’s called “critical period” where all forum activity was suspended so we can have an uninterrupted discussion on feature updates. These discussions included last minute advisories, compatibility notices for screen readers, as well as first impressions and bug reports from early adopters.

 

In recent months, it was found that the critical period declaration wasn’t effective as it once was. Not all members were aware of this period, and the period effectively reduced traffic on the forum. Also, due to the nature of the discussion during the period, we had feuds over compatibility, version labels and others, leading to admin notices being sent during the period.

 

At a discussion a few weeks ago, the head list representative asked several forum veterans (including leaders) regarding the effectiveness of feature update critical periods. Some said it should be kept so important discussions regarding new updates can take place. Others, sighting traffic during recent critical periods, asked that this be discontinued starting with the next feature update scheduled for fall 2018.

 

Question: when feature updates to Windows 10 are released, should the Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users enter critical periods? If yes, justify your position. If not, please explain your reasons and provide an alternative or two that should be done during feature update periods. Alternatives may include a simple admin declaration, screen reader vendors being elevated to moderator positions temporarily and what not.

 

Proposal instructions:

 

  1. You may discuss the proposal on the forum.
  2. Votes (and justifications) should be sent to win10+owner@groups.io. Any votes cast on the forum itself will not count. Any member can vote on this proposal, and when you vote, the subject line should be “Win10 critical period proposal” or similar.
  3. This proposal requires majority vote to pass (more than half of the voters must say “yes” in order for this to be adopted).
  4. In case voters say “no”, whichever alternative proposal that receives greatest votes will be adopted.
  5. Actions as determined by the vote result will take effect starting from the feature update scheduled for fall 2018.
  6. Discussion and voting on this proposal will close on Monday, May 14, 2018 at 12 PM Pacific (19:00 UTC). This is so that you can think about this proposal for a while and to give folks who read emails on weekends a chance to vote.

 

Thank tyou.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

Well I put my vote in as yes.

Saying that there needs to be some way to manage it.

The update mode should start on the actual day but only stay effective as long as 1 user gets the update.

If no one does, the mode should be stood down  till someone does.

I realise this means someone has to report this in, but its better to have it like this than have to start 6 hours before, then suddenly have to wait round for a few hours to pull it down again.

We should be warned about the update 6 hours before, and then have the update critical mode start 2 hours before update.

On 5/10/2018 4:27 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,


A few weeks ago I and some members of the forum had a discussion regarding
critical periods for feature updates, specifically in regards to keeping
that tradition or not. Due to impending release of Version 1803 at that
time, the full forum-wide vote was delayed until now. Feel free to discuss
the below proposal here, and if you'd like to vote, please do so offlist
(full instructions will be given below):


Whenever feature updates such as Version 1803 were released, the Win10 Forum
for Screen Reader Users entered what's called "critical period" where all
forum activity was suspended so we can have an uninterrupted discussion on
feature updates. These discussions included last minute advisories,
compatibility notices for screen readers, as well as first impressions and
bug reports from early adopters.


In recent months, it was found that the critical period declaration wasn't
effective as it once was. Not all members were aware of this period, and the
period effectively reduced traffic on the forum. Also, due to the nature of
the discussion during the period, we had feuds over compatibility, version
labels and others, leading to admin notices being sent during the period.


At a discussion a few weeks ago, the head list representative asked several
forum veterans (including leaders) regarding the effectiveness of feature
update critical periods. Some said it should be kept so important
discussions regarding new updates can take place. Others, sighting traffic
during recent critical periods, asked that this be discontinued starting
with the next feature update scheduled for fall 2018.


Question: when feature updates to Windows 10 are released, should the Win10
Forum for Screen Reader Users enter critical periods? If yes, justify your
position. If not, please explain your reasons and provide an alternative or
two that should be done during feature update periods. Alternatives may
include a simple admin declaration, screen reader vendors being elevated to
moderator positions temporarily and what not.


Proposal instructions:


1. You may discuss the proposal on the forum.
2. Votes (and justifications) should be sent to win10+owner@groups.io
<mailto:win10+owner@groups.io> . Any votes cast on the forum itself will not
count. Any member can vote on this proposal, and when you vote, the subject
line should be "Win10 critical period proposal" or similar.
3. This proposal requires majority vote to pass (more than half of the
voters must say "yes" in order for this to be adopted).
4. In case voters say "no", whichever alternative proposal that
receives greatest votes will be adopted.
5. Actions as determined by the vote result will take effect starting
from the feature update scheduled for fall 2018.
6. Discussion and voting on this proposal will close on Monday, May 14,
2018 at 12 PM Pacific (19:00 UTC). This is so that you can think about this
proposal for a while and to give folks who read emails on weekends a chance
to vote.


Thank tyou.

Cheers,

Joseph

Kevin Cussick
 

Joe said not on this list!

On 09/05/2018 22:37, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Well I put my vote in as yes.
Saying that there needs to be some way to manage it.
The update mode should start on the actual day but only stay effective as long as 1 user gets the update.
If no one does, the mode should be stood down  till someone does.
I realise this means someone has to report this in, but its better to have it like this than have to start 6 hours before, then suddenly have to wait round for a few hours to pull it down again.
We should be warned about the update 6 hours before, and then have the update critical mode start 2 hours before update.
On 5/10/2018 4:27 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,


A few weeks ago I and some members of the forum had a discussion regarding
critical periods for feature updates, specifically in regards to keeping
that tradition or not. Due to impending release of Version 1803 at that
time, the full forum-wide vote was delayed until now. Feel free to discuss
the below proposal here, and if you'd like to vote, please do so offlist
(full instructions will be given below):


Whenever feature updates such as Version 1803 were released, the Win10 Forum
for Screen Reader Users entered what's called "critical period" where all
forum activity was suspended so we can have an uninterrupted discussion on
feature updates. These discussions included last minute advisories,
compatibility notices for screen readers, as well as first impressions and
bug reports from early adopters.


In recent months, it was found that the critical period declaration wasn't
effective as it once was. Not all members were aware of this period, and the
period effectively reduced traffic on the forum. Also, due to the nature of
the discussion during the period, we had feuds over compatibility, version
labels and others, leading to admin notices being sent during the period.


At a discussion a few weeks ago, the head list representative asked several
forum veterans (including leaders) regarding the effectiveness of feature
update critical periods. Some said it should be kept so important
discussions regarding new updates can take place. Others, sighting traffic
during recent critical periods, asked that this be discontinued starting
with the next feature update scheduled for fall 2018.


Question: when feature updates to Windows 10 are released, should the Win10
Forum for Screen Reader Users enter critical periods? If yes, justify your
position. If not, please explain your reasons and provide an alternative or
two that should be done during feature update periods. Alternatives may
include a simple admin declaration, screen reader vendors being elevated to
moderator positions temporarily and what not.


Proposal instructions:


1.    You may discuss the proposal on the forum.
2.    Votes (and justifications) should be sent to win10+owner@groups.io
<mailto:win10+owner@groups.io> . Any votes cast on the forum itself will not
count. Any member can vote on this proposal, and when you vote, the subject
line should be "Win10 critical period proposal" or similar.
3.    This proposal requires majority vote to pass (more than half of the
voters must say "yes" in order for this to be adopted).
4.    In case voters say "no", whichever alternative proposal that
receives greatest votes will be adopted.
5.    Actions as determined by the vote result will take effect starting
from the feature update scheduled for fall 2018.
6.    Discussion and voting on this proposal will close on Monday, May 14,
2018 at 12 PM Pacific (19:00 UTC). This is so that you can think about this
proposal for a while and to give folks who read emails on weekends a chance
to vote.


Thank tyou.

Cheers,

Joseph

Michael Massey
 

Sean. Please read Joseph's instructions concerning voting for the proposal.
I'm not the list cop, but you're vote isn't going to count. Please folks,
carefully read Joseph's instructions.

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 3:37 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates
continue in the future? #Proposal

Well I put my vote in as yes.

Saying that there needs to be some way to manage it.

The update mode should start on the actual day but only stay effective as
long as 1 user gets the update.

If no one does, the mode should be stood down  till someone does.

I realise this means someone has to report this in, but its better to have
it like this than have to start 6 hours before, then suddenly have to wait
round for a few hours to pull it down again.

We should be warned about the update 6 hours before, and then have the
update critical mode start 2 hours before update.





On 5/10/2018 4:27 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,



A few weeks ago I and some members of the forum had a discussion regarding
critical periods for feature updates, specifically in regards to keeping
that tradition or not. Due to impending release of Version 1803 at that
time, the full forum-wide vote was delayed until now. Feel free to discuss
the below proposal here, and if you'd like to vote, please do so offlist
(full instructions will be given below):



Whenever feature updates such as Version 1803 were released, the Win10
Forum
for Screen Reader Users entered what's called "critical period" where all
forum activity was suspended so we can have an uninterrupted discussion on
feature updates. These discussions included last minute advisories,
compatibility notices for screen readers, as well as first impressions and
bug reports from early adopters.



In recent months, it was found that the critical period declaration wasn't
effective as it once was. Not all members were aware of this period, and
the
period effectively reduced traffic on the forum. Also, due to the nature
of
the discussion during the period, we had feuds over compatibility, version
labels and others, leading to admin notices being sent during the period.



At a discussion a few weeks ago, the head list representative asked
several
forum veterans (including leaders) regarding the effectiveness of feature
update critical periods. Some said it should be kept so important
discussions regarding new updates can take place. Others, sighting traffic
during recent critical periods, asked that this be discontinued starting
with the next feature update scheduled for fall 2018.



Question: when feature updates to Windows 10 are released, should the
Win10
Forum for Screen Reader Users enter critical periods? If yes, justify your
position. If not, please explain your reasons and provide an alternative
or
two that should be done during feature update periods. Alternatives may
include a simple admin declaration, screen reader vendors being elevated
to
moderator positions temporarily and what not.



Proposal instructions:



1. You may discuss the proposal on the forum.
2. Votes (and justifications) should be sent to win10+owner@groups.io
<mailto:win10+owner@groups.io> . Any votes cast on the forum itself will
not
count. Any member can vote on this proposal, and when you vote, the
subject
line should be "Win10 critical period proposal" or similar.
3. This proposal requires majority vote to pass (more than half of the
voters must say "yes" in order for this to be adopted).
4. In case voters say "no", whichever alternative proposal that
receives greatest votes will be adopted.
5. Actions as determined by the vote result will take effect starting
from the feature update scheduled for fall 2018.
6. Discussion and voting on this proposal will close on Monday, May 14,
2018 at 12 PM Pacific (19:00 UTC). This is so that you can think about
this
proposal for a while and to give folks who read emails on weekends a
chance
to vote.



Thank tyou.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

Hi,
Shaun voted afterwards. It is okay to discuss the proposal here, but as I
said earlier, votes should be sent to the designated address.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael
Massey
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 3:56 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates
continue in the future? #Proposal

Sean. Please read Joseph's instructions concerning voting for the proposal.
I'm not the list cop, but you're vote isn't going to count. Please folks,
carefully read Joseph's instructions.

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 3:37 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates
continue in the future? #Proposal

Well I put my vote in as yes.

Saying that there needs to be some way to manage it.

The update mode should start on the actual day but only stay effective as
long as 1 user gets the update.

If no one does, the mode should be stood down  till someone does.

I realise this means someone has to report this in, but its better to have
it like this than have to start 6 hours before, then suddenly have to wait
round for a few hours to pull it down again.

We should be warned about the update 6 hours before, and then have the
update critical mode start 2 hours before update.





On 5/10/2018 4:27 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,



A few weeks ago I and some members of the forum had a discussion
regarding critical periods for feature updates, specifically in
regards to keeping that tradition or not. Due to impending release of
Version 1803 at that time, the full forum-wide vote was delayed until
now. Feel free to discuss the below proposal here, and if you'd like
to vote, please do so offlist (full instructions will be given below):



Whenever feature updates such as Version 1803 were released, the Win10
Forum
for Screen Reader Users entered what's called "critical period" where
all forum activity was suspended so we can have an uninterrupted
discussion on feature updates. These discussions included last minute
advisories, compatibility notices for screen readers, as well as first
impressions and bug reports from early adopters.



In recent months, it was found that the critical period declaration
wasn't effective as it once was. Not all members were aware of this
period, and
the
period effectively reduced traffic on the forum. Also, due to the
nature
of
the discussion during the period, we had feuds over compatibility,
version labels and others, leading to admin notices being sent during the
period.



At a discussion a few weeks ago, the head list representative asked
several
forum veterans (including leaders) regarding the effectiveness of
feature update critical periods. Some said it should be kept so
important discussions regarding new updates can take place. Others,
sighting traffic during recent critical periods, asked that this be
discontinued starting with the next feature update scheduled for fall
2018.



Question: when feature updates to Windows 10 are released, should the
Win10
Forum for Screen Reader Users enter critical periods? If yes, justify
your position. If not, please explain your reasons and provide an
alternative
or
two that should be done during feature update periods. Alternatives
may include a simple admin declaration, screen reader vendors being
elevated
to
moderator positions temporarily and what not.



Proposal instructions:



1. You may discuss the proposal on the forum.
2. Votes (and justifications) should be sent to win10+owner@groups.io
<mailto:win10+owner@groups.io> . Any votes cast on the forum itself
will
not
count. Any member can vote on this proposal, and when you vote, the
subject
line should be "Win10 critical period proposal" or similar.
3. This proposal requires majority vote to pass (more than half of the
voters must say "yes" in order for this to be adopted).
4. In case voters say "no", whichever alternative proposal that
receives greatest votes will be adopted.
5. Actions as determined by the vote result will take effect starting
from the feature update scheduled for fall 2018.
6. Discussion and voting on this proposal will close on Monday, May 14,
2018 at 12 PM Pacific (19:00 UTC). This is so that you can think about
this
proposal for a while and to give folks who read emails on weekends a
chance
to vote.



Thank tyou.

Cheers,

Joseph

Michael Massey
 

Hi. My point exactly concerning your last statement. Had the vote not
taken place on this list, I wouldn't have commented. Ok, this is my last
word on this topic.

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 5:00 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates
continue in the future? #Proposal

Hi,
Shaun voted afterwards. It is okay to discuss the proposal here, but as I
said earlier, votes should be sent to the designated address.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael
Massey
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 3:56 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates
continue in the future? #Proposal

Sean. Please read Joseph's instructions concerning voting for the proposal.
I'm not the list cop, but you're vote isn't going to count. Please folks,
carefully read Joseph's instructions.

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 3:37 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates
continue in the future? #Proposal

Well I put my vote in as yes.

Saying that there needs to be some way to manage it.

The update mode should start on the actual day but only stay effective as
long as 1 user gets the update.

If no one does, the mode should be stood down  till someone does.

I realise this means someone has to report this in, but its better to have
it like this than have to start 6 hours before, then suddenly have to wait
round for a few hours to pull it down again.

We should be warned about the update 6 hours before, and then have the
update critical mode start 2 hours before update.





On 5/10/2018 4:27 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,



A few weeks ago I and some members of the forum had a discussion
regarding critical periods for feature updates, specifically in
regards to keeping that tradition or not. Due to impending release of
Version 1803 at that time, the full forum-wide vote was delayed until
now. Feel free to discuss the below proposal here, and if you'd like
to vote, please do so offlist (full instructions will be given below):



Whenever feature updates such as Version 1803 were released, the Win10
Forum
for Screen Reader Users entered what's called "critical period" where
all forum activity was suspended so we can have an uninterrupted
discussion on feature updates. These discussions included last minute
advisories, compatibility notices for screen readers, as well as first
impressions and bug reports from early adopters.



In recent months, it was found that the critical period declaration
wasn't effective as it once was. Not all members were aware of this
period, and
the
period effectively reduced traffic on the forum. Also, due to the
nature
of
the discussion during the period, we had feuds over compatibility,
version labels and others, leading to admin notices being sent during
the
period.



At a discussion a few weeks ago, the head list representative asked
several
forum veterans (including leaders) regarding the effectiveness of
feature update critical periods. Some said it should be kept so
important discussions regarding new updates can take place. Others,
sighting traffic during recent critical periods, asked that this be
discontinued starting with the next feature update scheduled for fall
2018.



Question: when feature updates to Windows 10 are released, should the
Win10
Forum for Screen Reader Users enter critical periods? If yes, justify
your position. If not, please explain your reasons and provide an
alternative
or
two that should be done during feature update periods. Alternatives
may include a simple admin declaration, screen reader vendors being
elevated
to
moderator positions temporarily and what not.



Proposal instructions:



1. You may discuss the proposal on the forum.
2. Votes (and justifications) should be sent to win10+owner@groups.io
<mailto:win10+owner@groups.io> . Any votes cast on the forum itself
will
not
count. Any member can vote on this proposal, and when you vote, the
subject
line should be "Win10 critical period proposal" or similar.
3. This proposal requires majority vote to pass (more than half of the
voters must say "yes" in order for this to be adopted).
4. In case voters say "no", whichever alternative proposal that
receives greatest votes will be adopted.
5. Actions as determined by the vote result will take effect starting
from the feature update scheduled for fall 2018.
6. Discussion and voting on this proposal will close on Monday, May 14,
2018 at 12 PM Pacific (19:00 UTC). This is so that you can think about
this
proposal for a while and to give folks who read emails on weekends a
chance
to vote.



Thank tyou.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

I have already submitted my vote, but want to offer my opinion here.

I do not think the critical periods should continue, but it is only the restriction of forum traffic to "the new Version" for a period of 3 days (72 hours) that I find problematic.

I have never noticed that those having issues related to a new feature update, which changes the version number, failing to make clear that this is what they're talking about.  I have noticed that forum traffic often dips to next to nothing (unless we get a "hot topic") during those three days.

If folks need to ask questions regarding issues other than the new feature update that really doesn't interfere in any way with those asking questions directly related to it.

Other than that, I think the rest of "the critical period" which includes announcements about the feature update release date and time, identified issues collected from multiple sources, etc., all serve a useful and valuable purpose.  There's just no reason those can't be mingled with other questions, comments, etc.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

         ~ Commenter TheCruyffGurn on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

 

 

I did vote in the right channel, joseph said we can discuss on here.

So I am, I have allready submitted my viewpoint on the official channel but I am discussing my point on here though I have allready done it.

On 5/10/2018 10:56 AM, Michael Massey wrote:
Sean. Please read Joseph's instructions concerning voting for the proposal.
I'm not the list cop, but you're vote isn't going to count. Please folks,
carefully read Joseph's instructions.

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 3:37 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates
continue in the future? #Proposal

Well I put my vote in as yes.

Saying that there needs to be some way to manage it.

The update mode should start on the actual day but only stay effective as
long as 1 user gets the update.

If no one does, the mode should be stood down  till someone does.

I realise this means someone has to report this in, but its better to have
it like this than have to start 6 hours before, then suddenly have to wait
round for a few hours to pull it down again.

We should be warned about the update 6 hours before, and then have the
update critical mode start 2 hours before update.





On 5/10/2018 4:27 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,


A few weeks ago I and some members of the forum had a discussion regarding
critical periods for feature updates, specifically in regards to keeping
that tradition or not. Due to impending release of Version 1803 at that
time, the full forum-wide vote was delayed until now. Feel free to discuss
the below proposal here, and if you'd like to vote, please do so offlist
(full instructions will be given below):


Whenever feature updates such as Version 1803 were released, the Win10
Forum
for Screen Reader Users entered what's called "critical period" where all
forum activity was suspended so we can have an uninterrupted discussion on
feature updates. These discussions included last minute advisories,
compatibility notices for screen readers, as well as first impressions and
bug reports from early adopters.


In recent months, it was found that the critical period declaration wasn't
effective as it once was. Not all members were aware of this period, and
the
period effectively reduced traffic on the forum. Also, due to the nature
of
the discussion during the period, we had feuds over compatibility, version
labels and others, leading to admin notices being sent during the period.


At a discussion a few weeks ago, the head list representative asked
several
forum veterans (including leaders) regarding the effectiveness of feature
update critical periods. Some said it should be kept so important
discussions regarding new updates can take place. Others, sighting traffic
during recent critical periods, asked that this be discontinued starting
with the next feature update scheduled for fall 2018.


Question: when feature updates to Windows 10 are released, should the
Win10
Forum for Screen Reader Users enter critical periods? If yes, justify your
position. If not, please explain your reasons and provide an alternative
or
two that should be done during feature update periods. Alternatives may
include a simple admin declaration, screen reader vendors being elevated
to
moderator positions temporarily and what not.


Proposal instructions:


1. You may discuss the proposal on the forum.
2. Votes (and justifications) should be sent to win10+owner@groups.io
<mailto:win10+owner@groups.io> . Any votes cast on the forum itself will
not
count. Any member can vote on this proposal, and when you vote, the
subject
line should be "Win10 critical period proposal" or similar.
3. This proposal requires majority vote to pass (more than half of the
voters must say "yes" in order for this to be adopted).
4. In case voters say "no", whichever alternative proposal that
receives greatest votes will be adopted.
5. Actions as determined by the vote result will take effect starting
from the feature update scheduled for fall 2018.
6. Discussion and voting on this proposal will close on Monday, May 14,
2018 at 12 PM Pacific (19:00 UTC). This is so that you can think about
this
proposal for a while and to give folks who read emails on weekends a
chance
to vote.


Thank tyou.

Cheers,

Joseph





.

 

Well my submittion is allready put in.

My issue is more to the start time of a critical being 6 hours or so.

And as a second check the first user to get the update should put the entire thing in fully.

That is, the first user report and it works.

On 5/10/2018 11:36 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
I have already submitted my vote, but want to offer my opinion here.

I do not think the critical periods should continue, but it is only the restriction of forum traffic to "the new Version" for a period of 3 days (72 hours) that I find problematic.

I have never noticed that those having issues related to a new feature update, which changes the version number, failing to make clear that this is what they're talking about.  I have noticed that forum traffic often dips to next to nothing (unless we get a "hot topic") during those three days.

If folks need to ask questions regarding issues other than the new feature update that really doesn't interfere in any way with those asking questions directly related to it.

Other than that, I think the rest of "the critical period" which includes announcements about the feature update release date and time, identified issues collected from multiple sources, etc., all serve a useful and valuable purpose.  There's just no reason those can't be mingled with other questions, comments, etc.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

     In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

        ~ Commenter *TheCruyffGurn* on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

Kevin Cussick
 

fare enough sorry for jumping in to soon.

On 10/05/2018 00:00, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Shaun voted afterwards. It is okay to discuss the proposal here, but as I
said earlier, votes should be sent to the designated address.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael
Massey
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 3:56 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates
continue in the future? #Proposal
Sean. Please read Joseph's instructions concerning voting for the proposal.
I'm not the list cop, but you're vote isn't going to count. Please folks,
carefully read Joseph's instructions.
-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 3:37 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates
continue in the future? #Proposal
Well I put my vote in as yes.
Saying that there needs to be some way to manage it.
The update mode should start on the actual day but only stay effective as
long as 1 user gets the update.
If no one does, the mode should be stood down  till someone does.
I realise this means someone has to report this in, but its better to have
it like this than have to start 6 hours before, then suddenly have to wait
round for a few hours to pull it down again.
We should be warned about the update 6 hours before, and then have the
update critical mode start 2 hours before update.
On 5/10/2018 4:27 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,


A few weeks ago I and some members of the forum had a discussion
regarding critical periods for feature updates, specifically in
regards to keeping that tradition or not. Due to impending release of
Version 1803 at that time, the full forum-wide vote was delayed until
now. Feel free to discuss the below proposal here, and if you'd like
to vote, please do so offlist (full instructions will be given below):


Whenever feature updates such as Version 1803 were released, the Win10
Forum
for Screen Reader Users entered what's called "critical period" where
all forum activity was suspended so we can have an uninterrupted
discussion on feature updates. These discussions included last minute
advisories, compatibility notices for screen readers, as well as first
impressions and bug reports from early adopters.


In recent months, it was found that the critical period declaration
wasn't effective as it once was. Not all members were aware of this
period, and
the
period effectively reduced traffic on the forum. Also, due to the
nature
of
the discussion during the period, we had feuds over compatibility,
version labels and others, leading to admin notices being sent during the
period.


At a discussion a few weeks ago, the head list representative asked
several
forum veterans (including leaders) regarding the effectiveness of
feature update critical periods. Some said it should be kept so
important discussions regarding new updates can take place. Others,
sighting traffic during recent critical periods, asked that this be
discontinued starting with the next feature update scheduled for fall
2018.


Question: when feature updates to Windows 10 are released, should the
Win10
Forum for Screen Reader Users enter critical periods? If yes, justify
your position. If not, please explain your reasons and provide an
alternative
or
two that should be done during feature update periods. Alternatives
may include a simple admin declaration, screen reader vendors being
elevated
to
moderator positions temporarily and what not.


Proposal instructions:


1. You may discuss the proposal on the forum.
2. Votes (and justifications) should be sent to win10+owner@groups.io
<mailto:win10+owner@groups.io> . Any votes cast on the forum itself
will
not
count. Any member can vote on this proposal, and when you vote, the
subject
line should be "Win10 critical period proposal" or similar.
3. This proposal requires majority vote to pass (more than half of the
voters must say "yes" in order for this to be adopted).
4. In case voters say "no", whichever alternative proposal that
receives greatest votes will be adopted.
5. Actions as determined by the vote result will take effect starting
from the feature update scheduled for fall 2018.
6. Discussion and voting on this proposal will close on Monday, May 14,
2018 at 12 PM Pacific (19:00 UTC). This is so that you can think about
this
proposal for a while and to give folks who read emails on weekends a
chance
to vote.


Thank tyou.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

Another issue with the "critical period" is the fact that no one in the group might even get any given Windows 10 Feature Update anywhere near to its initial release date.

We currently have 453 members, that's less than a drop in a bucket relative to all Windows 10 users.  Since feature updates are rolled out to cohorts of computers at once, usually small (where that's a relative term where there are millions of users) ones first, growing in cohort size as the roll out continues.  None of us might have a feature update for months if it's not forced.

Group leadership has been trying, mightily, to discourage people from forcing feature updates rather than just waiting for them to arrive via the usual Windows Update process.  The early days of any feature update are always the most perilous and buggy, so letting the dust settle before going to the next feature update is always a good idea.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

         ~ Commenter TheCruyffGurn on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

 

 

For a lot of those on 4th gen units up intel wize though the update does come immediately.

I think this warrents a counter proposal, but maybe we need to change the structure of a critical update.

I would still like critical update period notifications where things are taken down but maybe I don't know, have a special tag for critical update periods.

ie critical, followed by the version.

windows 1803 critical or even just a simple notification marker for the subject line.

All other traffic can continue but priorities depending on what happened.

I don't know.

I'd still like a period to start, my origional submittion would not fully have to do with the day but the first install.

The majority of users won't have problems in the most case.

I stop short of another list for critical things as its another sublist to subscribe to, then again, am I

being stupid.

Is there a length of time groups.io will allow a list to be inactive for.

If its unlimited then the critical list will be active for the time of a critical period, the advantage is that critical periods could be increased, if needed.

If its not, I don't see any issue with an automated message being sent from it each month stating its guidelines and what it is for.

That message could be changed or suspended, ie whenever a critical comes or is supposed to come, etc.

Is that at all possible.

The issue is we seem to be using the main list, its a pitty there isn't a critical notification one can have for things but who knows.

On 5/11/2018 10:23 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Another issue with the "critical period" is the fact that no one in the group might even get any given Windows 10 Feature Update anywhere near to its initial release date.

We currently have 453 members, that's less than a drop in a bucket relative to all Windows 10 users.  Since feature updates are rolled out to cohorts of computers at once, usually small (where that's a relative term where there are millions of users) ones first, growing in cohort size as the roll out continues.  None of us might have a feature update for months if it's not forced.

Group leadership has been trying, mightily, to discourage people from forcing feature updates rather than just waiting for them to arrive via the usual Windows Update process.  The early days of any feature update are always the most perilous and buggy, so letting the dust settle before going to the next feature update is always a good idea.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

     In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

        ~ Commenter *TheCruyffGurn* on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

 

Hi,
Marking critical periods: this is what hashtags and special notices are for. One way to do this is just announce that we anticipate higher than normal traffic from those upgrading to a new feature update.
Using hashtags and special notices also has a downside: what if folks delete upgrade threads, and later discover that the info they needed was part of that discussion? One possible way is to encourage folks to save important messages regarding feature updates just in case they need to refer back to advisories and workarounds for driver issues.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:56 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates continue in the future? #Proposal

For a lot of those on 4th gen units up intel wize though the update does come immediately.

I think this warrents a counter proposal, but maybe we need to change the structure of a critical update.

I would still like critical update period notifications where things are taken down but maybe I don't know, have a special tag for critical update periods.

ie critical, followed by the version.

windows 1803 critical or even just a simple notification marker for the subject line.

All other traffic can continue but priorities depending on what happened.

I don't know.

I'd still like a period to start, my origional submittion would not fully have to do with the day but the first install.

The majority of users won't have problems in the most case.

I stop short of another list for critical things as its another sublist to subscribe to, then again, am I

being stupid.

Is there a length of time groups.io will allow a list to be inactive for.

If its unlimited then the critical list will be active for the time of a critical period, the advantage is that critical periods could be increased, if needed.

If its not, I don't see any issue with an automated message being sent from it each month stating its guidelines and what it is for.

That message could be changed or suspended, ie whenever a critical comes or is supposed to come, etc.

Is that at all possible.

The issue is we seem to be using the main list, its a pitty there isn't a critical notification one can have for things but who knows.



On 5/11/2018 10:23 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Another issue with the "critical period" is the fact that no one in the group might even get any given Windows 10 Feature Update anywhere near to its initial release date.

We currently have 453 members, that's less than a drop in a bucket relative to all Windows 10 users. Since feature updates are rolled out to cohorts of computers at once, usually small (where that's a relative term where there are millions of users) ones first, growing in cohort size as the roll out continues. None of us might have a feature update for months if it's not forced.

Group leadership has been trying, mightily, to discourage people from forcing feature updates rather than just waiting for them to arrive via the usual Windows Update process. The early days of any feature update are always the most perilous and buggy, so letting the dust settle before going to the next feature update is always a good idea.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

~ Commenter *TheCruyffGurn* on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

 

Hmmm I do wander in that case if there is a simple way to retrieve important things like this.

The list wiki could be one thing.

A list twitter for  anything that needs to be looked at, something extra on the nvda website or community site, some way to retrieve info that is needed.

It would have to be posted manually, there could be a wordpress blog.

Now, if it is a wordpress blog, I could manage it.

I would need a place to put wordpress for the blog, or I could make a free blog on wordpress.com for this, though I allready have a site, but on the other hand, I'd probably only need maybe 4gb of space for a blog plus plugins and the like for notifications not much, maybe nvda could do it itself on its own site there are ways to have notifications take your pick.

Not everyone will save important messages, and things do go down.

If there was an easy place for all important information to be stored online and we all knew it, and if it could be updated indipendant of email could that work?

On 5/11/2018 5:02 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Marking critical periods: this is what hashtags and special notices are for. One way to do this is just announce that we anticipate higher than normal traffic from those upgrading to a new feature update.
Using hashtags and special notices also has a downside: what if folks delete upgrade threads, and later discover that the info they needed was part of that discussion? One possible way is to encourage folks to save important messages regarding feature updates just in case they need to refer back to advisories and workarounds for driver issues.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:56 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates continue in the future? #Proposal

For a lot of those on 4th gen units up intel wize though the update does come immediately.

I think this warrents a counter proposal, but maybe we need to change the structure of a critical update.

I would still like critical update period notifications where things are taken down but maybe I don't know, have a special tag for critical update periods.

ie critical, followed by the version.

windows 1803 critical or even just a simple notification marker for the subject line.

All other traffic can continue but priorities depending on what happened.

I don't know.

I'd still like a period to start, my origional submittion would not fully have to do with the day but the first install.

The majority of users won't have problems in the most case.

I stop short of another list for critical things as its another sublist to subscribe to, then again, am I

being stupid.

Is there a length of time groups.io will allow a list to be inactive for.

If its unlimited then the critical list will be active for the time of a critical period, the advantage is that critical periods could be increased, if needed.

If its not, I don't see any issue with an automated message being sent from it each month stating its guidelines and what it is for.

That message could be changed or suspended, ie whenever a critical comes or is supposed to come, etc.

Is that at all possible.

The issue is we seem to be using the main list, its a pitty there isn't a critical notification one can have for things but who knows.



On 5/11/2018 10:23 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Another issue with the "critical period" is the fact that no one in the group might even get any given Windows 10 Feature Update anywhere near to its initial release date.

We currently have 453 members, that's less than a drop in a bucket relative to all Windows 10 users. Since feature updates are rolled out to cohorts of computers at once, usually small (where that's a relative term where there are millions of users) ones first, growing in cohort size as the roll out continues. None of us might have a feature update for months if it's not forced.

Group leadership has been trying, mightily, to discourage people from forcing feature updates rather than just waiting for them to arrive via the usual Windows Update process. The early days of any feature update are always the most perilous and buggy, so letting the dust settle before going to the next feature update is always a good idea.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

~ Commenter *TheCruyffGurn* on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014




Tyler Spivey
 

If people want to refer back to list messages, there's a list archive.
The accessibility of that page isn't great, but it works.

On 5/10/2018 10:02 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Marking critical periods: this is what hashtags and special notices are for. One way to do this is just announce that we anticipate higher than normal traffic from those upgrading to a new feature update.
Using hashtags and special notices also has a downside: what if folks delete upgrade threads, and later discover that the info they needed was part of that discussion? One possible way is to encourage folks to save important messages regarding feature updates just in case they need to refer back to advisories and workarounds for driver issues.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:56 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Proposal: should critical periods for feature updates continue in the future? #Proposal

For a lot of those on 4th gen units up intel wize though the update does come immediately.

I think this warrents a counter proposal, but maybe we need to change the structure of a critical update.

I would still like critical update period notifications where things are taken down but maybe I don't know, have a special tag for critical update periods.

ie critical, followed by the version.

windows 1803 critical or even just a simple notification marker for the subject line.

All other traffic can continue but priorities depending on what happened.

I don't know.

I'd still like a period to start, my origional submittion would not fully have to do with the day but the first install.

The majority of users won't have problems in the most case.

I stop short of another list for critical things as its another sublist to subscribe to, then again, am I

being stupid.

Is there a length of time groups.io will allow a list to be inactive for.

If its unlimited then the critical list will be active for the time of a critical period, the advantage is that critical periods could be increased, if needed.

If its not, I don't see any issue with an automated message being sent from it each month stating its guidelines and what it is for.

That message could be changed or suspended, ie whenever a critical comes or is supposed to come, etc.

Is that at all possible.

The issue is we seem to be using the main list, its a pitty there isn't a critical notification one can have for things but who knows.



On 5/11/2018 10:23 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Another issue with the "critical period" is the fact that no one in the group might even get any given Windows 10 Feature Update anywhere near to its initial release date.

We currently have 453 members, that's less than a drop in a bucket relative to all Windows 10 users. Since feature updates are rolled out to cohorts of computers at once, usually small (where that's a relative term where there are millions of users) ones first, growing in cohort size as the roll out continues. None of us might have a feature update for months if it's not forced.

Group leadership has been trying, mightily, to discourage people from forcing feature updates rather than just waiting for them to arrive via the usual Windows Update process. The early days of any feature update are always the most perilous and buggy, so letting the dust settle before going to the next feature update is always a good idea.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

~ Commenter *TheCruyffGurn* on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014