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Re: OK? space bar, enter, who knows
Timothy
On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 04:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Yes I agree, but you said that "if what has focus isn't a control, it activates nothing". You can press Space on a combo-box, for example, and it will do nothing, but if you press Enter, it will activate the default button as assigned by whoever programmed in the default button. While dialogs in Windows Usually default to the OK button, other developers may opt to make the default button something else entirely which can be activated by the Enter key. Yes, most seasoned users will know that tab controls, combo-boxes, radio-buttons, etc will not do anything if one presses Space, but they will also know that Enter will activate the default button, e.g., a Next or OK button. I suppose there was enough confusion that the JAWS developers thought it necessary to create a keybind which reports what the default button is for a given dialog. This default button behavior isn't that well documented as far as I know, so it may be useful for keyboard navigators to be aware of said behavior. Also every tab-stop will focus on elements that are interactable by the keyboard, e.g., arrow keys, pressing Enter/Space, etc. Other non-interactable elements, such as labels, explanation text, and descriptions, will not be focusable via the Tab key, and that's why all screen readers have at least one navigation mode that will allow users to traverse among non-interactable elements. Timothy
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Re: OK? space bar, enter, who knows
Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
Timothy,
I presume that any long term user of Windows knows that you use neither spacebar nor enter to activate a given radio button in certain contexts, it gets activated simply by moving focus to it. If I have File Explorer Options, General Tab open, and tab to the Browse folder options area which has two radio buttons, I will get the one currently pressed noted as "Pressed," and if I shift focus to the other, it becomes pressed. If I hit spacebar when focus is on either one, which is already checked by dint of having thrown focus there, and then hit spacebar the screen reader announces, "Pressed," but does not toggle the selection state. Even if I have no screen reader on, and deal strictly with keyboard navigation, this is the behavior. These are controls that are "activated by focus" and nothing else. One hits neither spacebar nor enter to change them. Now, I'll absolutely agree that if I hit enter when I'm on one of those it activates the OK button, the default button control. But you don't use either spacebar or enter to change the value for the radio button you want in the sections above. You simply gain focus on the one you want in the section you are working with, then tab out to the next section. I'm talking about controls that actually require the use of either spacebar or enter to activate them, not those that "activate by focus." Apples and oranges, really. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 Journalism 101: If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true. ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)
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Re: OK? space bar, enter, who knows
Timothy
On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 03:39 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Not true. Try, for example, opening Folder Options (whether from Windows Explorer, the Control Panel, etc). Note that the default control is the "Open File Explorer to" combo-box. Tab to any other control, e.g. the "Browse folders" radio-buttons, and press Enter. As the OK button is the default button in this case, the button will be pressed and the Folder Options dialog will then close. I'm not sure if JAWS still has this command, but when I used it a little over ten years ago, JAWSKey+E reported the default button which will be activated upon pressing Enter. Timothy
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Re: OK? space bar, enter, who knows
Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 02:35 PM, Steve Dresser wrote:
If you happen to be focused on a control which isn’t the default, pressing Enter may yield unexpected results.- I have never, in over 30 years of using Windows, seen Enter activate anything but the control with focus. I've seen times where it doesn't, too, and there have been occasions where, for some bizarre reason, spacebar doesn't. The default control always has focus, initially, by default, hence the name. But if you shift focus elsewhere, neither Enter nor Spacebar will activate anything except the control with focus (and if what has focus isn't a control, it activates nothing). -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 Journalism 101: If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true. ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)
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Re: Standard Calculator
Jim Wohlgamuth
Hello There! I seem to be having issues with Jaws and the Window's calculator..? I turn off Jaws, and start Narrator or NVDA and the calculator appears to function fine. I have noticed this issue for quite some time now. Just thought I would let folks know that I am having similar issues. Catch Ya Later! de <wohlggie@...><KF8LT><Jim
Wohlgamuth>.
On 23-Feb-21 14:36, Joseph Lee wrote:
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Re: Standard Calculator
Brad Snyder
Have you tried using the JAWS TouchCursor when using the windows calculator. You might find you have better results this way.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
- Brad -
On Feb 23, 2021, at 13:28, Dennis Brown <dennistbrown@...> wrote:
The Windows Calculator is difficult to use with JAWS, since the focus keeps getting moved from the results window. Any free speech friendly calculators out there?
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Re: Standard Calculator
Hi, Is this specific to JAWS and Calculator, or does this happen with other screen readers, too? If it doesn’t, then I suggest asking Vispero for a potential fix while looking for alternatives. Cheers, Joseph
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Brown
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 11:29 AM To: win10@win10.groups.io Subject: [win10] Standard Calculator
The Windows Calculator is difficult to use with JAWS, since the focus keeps getting moved from the results window. Any free speech friendly calculators out there?
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Re: OK? space bar, enter, who knows
Steve Dresser
Technically, Spacebar is the Windows keystroke for activating a form control (button, link, etc.), while Enter activates the default control which often produces the same result. If you happen to be focused on a control which isn’t the default, pressing Enter may yield unexpected results. Things get even more confusing when screen readers use Enter to activate Forms mode. The bottom line: Use the Spacebar to be absolutely sure.
Steve
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: February 22, 2021 21:48 To: win10@win10.groups.io Subject: Re: [win10] OK? space bar, enter, who knows
One can generally use either spacebar or enter on any button to activate it Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 Journalism 101: If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true. ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)
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Standard Calculator
Dennis Brown
The Windows Calculator is difficult to use with JAWS, since the focus keeps getting moved from the results window. Any free speech friendly calculators out there?
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Re: putting this pc on the desktop?
The exact way Jaws announces this is as follows:
Desktop icons Computer 3 state button not checked, alt+m
What a "3 State Button" is is hard to know, but the fact is that that is what you want to check and pressing the spacebar will toggle the checkbox from not checked to checked, then tab I think about 5 times to OK and activate it, after that you can close settings with Alt + F4. I don't want This PC on my desktop because I can easily access it from anywhere with the Windows Key + E shortcut or press the start menu and start typing "This", but I do like my user folder on the desktop which is another option in this list. For some reason from time to time it goes away and I have to recheck it, but the key here definitely is to make sure you also press OK or Apply after you check the item. By the way, if you want another much more useful way to access This PC I would put it on the taskbar where you can use Windows Key + whatever number This PC is on your taskbar to activate it form anywhere, no need to first go to the desktop. For example, if you have This PC pinned to your taskbar in position 4, Windows Key + 4 on the number row will open it from anywhere. To do this press the Windows Key, type "This PC" or part of it until you hear Jaws say "This PC, app, press right to switch preview", then press Alt + F10 or you rapplication key and select "Pin to Taskbar".
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Troy Burnham
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 6:35 AM To: win10@win10.groups.io Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?
Thanks Kevin, I saw a place where it said something was partially checked whatever that means, I'll go back and see if it was computer and if so I'll check it and see what happens.
Troy
On 2/23/2021 8:08 AM, Kevin Minor wrote:
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Re: windows 10 settings and jaws
I agree, to my knowledge there isn't anything in Windows 10 you "have" to change for Jaws to work better.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 12:36 PM To: win10@win10.groups.io Subject: Re: [win10] windows 10 settings and jaws It's hard to know what is meant by "optimal settings" -- Windows is meant to be quite configurable, and you can set it up just the way you like it. Anything that claims to be "optimal for jaws" is really just "optimal for a certain user". Maybe if you tell us what specifically you want to do or change, someone will be able to point you to the right setting. A thing to remember if you don't want to waste time poking around setting categories is that you can search for settings in the search box, and will usually be taken to the ones you want. -----Original Message----- From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Troy Burnham Sent: February 22, 2021 03:03 PM To: win10@groups.io Subject: [win10] windows 10 settings and jaws Hi all, I'm setting up my laptop after windows 10 was reinstalled over the weekend, and I had an old file with what I think were supposed to be the optimal windows 10 settings to work best with jaws but apparently what I have is out of date because I can't find some of the things that should be where the instructions in these files say they are. Does anybody have anything that shows current settings and how they should be set to work best with jaws? Thanks, btw I'm not sure what version of windows 10 the files I have covered but it must've been starting around 1709 or maybe 1809. I'm now running version I think 20H2O? anyway it should be the latest version. Troy
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Re: File explorer, at times, taking +-5 minutes to launch
Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
I'd definitely be doing disk health checks, on both disks, using the utility of your choosing for doing so.
-- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 Journalism 101: If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true. ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)
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Re: putting this pc on the desktop?
Troy Burnham
Thanks Kevin, I saw a place where it said something was partially checked whatever that means, I'll go back and see if it was computer and if so I'll check it and see what happens.
Troy
On 2/23/2021 8:08 AM, Kevin Minor
wrote:
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Re: putting this pc on the desktop?
Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 07:37 AM, Troy Burnham wrote:
I found where you're talking about but neither hitting the spacebar or enter on the this pc icon adds it to the desktop.- And that's because that's not what I instructed you to do. As someone else has already reinforced, the presence or absence of those specific desktop icons are controlled by whether the checkbox associated with it is checked or unchecked. I also clearly stated that it is the Computer checkbox that controls the presence or absence of the "This PC" icon on the desktop. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 Journalism 101: If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true. ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)
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Re: putting this pc on the desktop?
Kevin Minor
Hi.
I can’t remember exactly what I did, but on the screen where the This PC was, there’s a checkbox with Computer next to it. Nothing worked for me until I checked it.
Hope this works.
Kevin, Valerie and Jilly
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 8:59 AM To: win10@win10.groups.io Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?
Hi Troy,
After you make your selection of the desktop icons you need to tab to the, Okay button, and press either the spacebar or enter.
----- Original Message ----- From: Troy Burnham Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?
Hi Brian,
I found where you're talking about but neither hitting the spacebar or enter on the this pc icon adds it to the desktop.
Troy
On 2/22/2021 10:19 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
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Re: putting this pc on the desktop?
Mike B
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Hi Troy,
After you make your selection of the desktop
icons you need to tab to the, Okay button, and press either the spacebar or
enter.
Stay safe and take care. Mike.
----- Original Message -----
From: Troy
Burnham
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop? Hi Brian, I found where you're talking about but neither hitting the spacebar or enter on the this pc icon adds it to the desktop. Troy On 2/22/2021 10:19 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Settings, Personalization, Themes Pane, Desktop Icon Settings link.
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Re: OK? space bar, enter, who knows
Brad Snyder
Well, apparently things work differently on your computer, then on every other computer in the world.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
- Brad -
On Feb 23, 2021, at 01:30, Bill White <billwhite92701@...> wrote: Hi, Brad. I have not found that pressing OK applies your changes and closes the dialog. What I have found is that pressing OK without pressing Apply invokes the changes temporarily, whereas pressing Apply followed by pressing OK invokes the changes permanently. From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brad Snyder Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 7:08 PM To: win10@win10.groups.io Subject: Re: [win10] OK? space bar, enter, who knows I can’t answer for Mike, but in my many years of experience using Windows, pressing Apply, and pressing OK, accomplishes the same thing. Only difference is that pressing Apply, applies your changes, while pressing OK, applies your changes, and closes the dialogue.
On Feb 22, 2021, at 20:43, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote: Hi Mike B, and List, I read your very recent message about viewing hidden files. You said to press “space bar on the apply button” and enter on the OK button. Is there any rhyme, reason or sequence of knowing when to press which key on which control, including buttons? In Confusion, Monte
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Re: Win 10 Questions
Mike B
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
It's hard to say if you're up to date or not
since Microsoft doesn't send the same updates to everyone at the same
time. Someone more knowledgeable can explain how Microsoft does and why
they do this.
What procedure do you follow to shut your
computer down? If you're pressing the power button it's possible your
power button is set to, Log off, rather than shut down.
Stay safe and take care. Mike.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: [win10] Win 10 Questions Well you can check for updates by going into setting > update and security > windows update and click on the check for updates button
And your second question sounds like you have just logged out rather than shut down as that sounds like the lock screen to me, but I may be wrong on that
From:
John Fitzgerald
Hi,
I have a couple of questions about win 10.
First, how can I tell if my version is up to date? I have Version 2004 os build 19041.804
Second, What does it mean when, during a shut down, the desktop icons disappear,leaving the mouse arrow and a large clock with the date in the bottom left corner of the screen? This has happened a number of times, and I have left the computer alone for up to an hour, only to find that nothing has changed.
Any ideas?
John Fitzgerald Muse, Oklahoma
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Re: putting this pc on the desktop?
Kevin
Go to settings win key + i Tab to personalization After opening personalization Tab to desktop icons enter to open From the menu select this pc
email is golden!!! Kevin Lee
From: Troy Burnham
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 8:08 PM To: win10@groups.io Subject: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?
Hi all,
How do I put this pc on the desktop?
Thanks.
Troy
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Re: putting this pc on the desktop?
Troy Burnham
Hi Brian,
I found where you're talking about but neither hitting the spacebar or enter on the this pc icon adds it to the desktop.
Troy
On 2/22/2021 10:19 PM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
Settings, Personalization, Themes Pane, Desktop Icon Settings link.
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