Date   

Re: OK? space bar, enter, who knows

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Timothy,

            I presume that any long term user of Windows knows that you use neither spacebar nor enter to activate a given radio button in certain contexts, it gets activated simply by moving focus to it.

            If I have File Explorer Options, General Tab open, and tab to the Browse folder options area which has two radio buttons, I will get the one currently pressed noted as "Pressed," and if I shift focus to the other, it becomes pressed.  If I hit spacebar when focus is on either one, which is already checked by dint of having thrown focus there, and then hit spacebar the screen reader announces, "Pressed," but does not toggle the selection state.  Even if I have no screen reader on, and deal strictly with keyboard navigation, this is the behavior.  These are controls that are "activated by focus" and nothing else.  One hits neither spacebar nor enter to change them.

            Now, I'll absolutely agree that if I hit enter when I'm on one of those it activates the OK button, the default button control.  But you don't use either spacebar or enter to change the value for the radio button you want in the sections above.  You simply gain focus on the one you want in the section you are working with, then tab out to the next section.

            I'm talking about controls that actually require the use of either spacebar or enter to activate them, not those that "activate by focus."  Apples and oranges, really.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)


Re: OK? space bar, enter, who knows

Timothy
 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 03:39 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

The default control always has focus, initially, by default, hence the name.  But if you shift focus elsewhere, neither Enter nor Spacebar will activate anything except the control with focus (and if what has focus isn't a control, it activates nothing).

Not true. Try, for example, opening Folder Options (whether from Windows Explorer, the Control Panel, etc). Note that the default control is the "Open File Explorer to" combo-box. Tab to any other control, e.g. the "Browse folders" radio-buttons, and press Enter. As the OK button is the default button in this case, the button will be pressed and the Folder Options dialog will then close.

I'm not sure if JAWS still has this command, but when I used it a little over ten years ago, JAWSKey+E reported the default button which will be activated upon pressing Enter.

Timothy


Re: OK? space bar, enter, who knows

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 02:35 PM, Steve Dresser wrote:
If you happen to be focused on a control which isn’t the default, pressing Enter may yield unexpected results.
-
I have never, in over 30 years of using Windows, seen Enter activate anything but the control with focus.  I've seen times where it doesn't, too, and there have been occasions where, for some bizarre reason, spacebar doesn't.

The default control always has focus, initially, by default, hence the name.  But if you shift focus elsewhere, neither Enter nor Spacebar will activate anything except the control with focus (and if what has focus isn't a control, it activates nothing).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)


Re: Standard Calculator

Jim Wohlgamuth
 

Hello There!

I seem to be having issues with Jaws and the Window's calculator..? I turn off Jaws, and start Narrator or NVDA and the calculator appears to function fine. I have noticed this issue for quite some time now. Just thought I would let folks know that I am having similar issues.  Catch Ya Later!

de

<wohlggie@...><KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 23-Feb-21 14:36, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Is this specific to JAWS and Calculator, or does this happen with other screen readers, too? If it doesn’t, then I suggest asking Vispero for a potential fix while looking for alternatives.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Brown
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 11:29 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Standard Calculator

 

The Windows Calculator is difficult to use with JAWS, since the focus keeps getting moved from the results window.

Any free speech friendly calculators out there?

 

 


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Re: Standard Calculator

Brad Snyder
 

Have you tried using the JAWS TouchCursor when using the windows calculator. You might find you have better results this way.

- Brad -

On Feb 23, 2021, at 13:28, Dennis Brown <dennistbrown@...> wrote:



The Windows Calculator is difficult to use with JAWS, since the focus keeps getting moved from the results window.

Any free speech friendly calculators out there?

 




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Re: Standard Calculator

 

Hi,

Is this specific to JAWS and Calculator, or does this happen with other screen readers, too? If it doesn’t, then I suggest asking Vispero for a potential fix while looking for alternatives.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Brown
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 11:29 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Standard Calculator

 

The Windows Calculator is difficult to use with JAWS, since the focus keeps getting moved from the results window.

Any free speech friendly calculators out there?

 

 


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Re: OK? space bar, enter, who knows

Steve Dresser
 

Technically, Spacebar is the Windows keystroke for activating a form control (button, link, etc.), while Enter activates the default control which often produces the same result. If you happen to be focused on a control which isn’t the default, pressing Enter may yield unexpected results. Things get even more confusing when screen readers use Enter to activate Forms mode. The bottom line: Use the Spacebar to be absolutely sure.

 

Steve

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: February 22, 2021 21:48
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] OK? space bar, enter, who knows

 

One can generally use either spacebar or enter on any button to activate it

Enter virtually always works because it's the Windows method to activate.  Spacebar is more screen reader dependent, but it's awfully reliable.  It's always helpful to know that if one doesn't work, try the other.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)


Standard Calculator

Dennis Brown
 

The Windows Calculator is difficult to use with JAWS, since the focus keeps getting moved from the results window.

Any free speech friendly calculators out there?

 




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Re: putting this pc on the desktop?

 

The exact way Jaws announces this is as follows:

 

Desktop icons Computer 3 state button not checked, alt+m

 

What a "3 State Button" is is hard to know, but the fact is that that is what you want to check and pressing the spacebar will toggle the checkbox from not checked to checked, then tab I think about 5 times to OK and activate it, after that you can close settings with Alt + F4. I don't want This PC on my desktop because I can easily access it from anywhere with the Windows Key + E shortcut or press the start menu and start typing "This", but I do like my user folder on the desktop which is another option in this list. For some reason from time to time it goes away and I have to recheck it, but the key here definitely is to make sure you also press OK or Apply after you check the item.

By the way, if you want another much more useful way to access This PC I would put it on the taskbar where you can use Windows Key + whatever number This PC is on your taskbar to activate it form anywhere, no need to first go to the desktop.

For example, if you have This PC pinned to your taskbar in position 4, Windows Key + 4 on the number row will open it from anywhere.

To do this press the Windows Key, type "This PC" or part of it until you hear Jaws say "This PC, app, press right to switch preview", then press Alt + F10 or you rapplication key and select "Pin to Taskbar".

 

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Troy Burnham
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 6:35 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?

 

Thanks Kevin, I saw a place where it said something was partially checked whatever that means, I'll go back and see if it was computer and if so I'll check it and see what happens.

 

Troy

 

 

On 2/23/2021 8:08 AM, Kevin Minor wrote:

Hi.

 

I can’t remember exactly what I did, but on the screen where the This PC was, there’s a checkbox with Computer next to it. Nothing worked for me until I checked it.

 

Hope this works.

 

Kevin, Valerie and Jilly

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 8:59 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?

 

Hi Troy,

 

After you make your selection of the desktop icons you need to tab to the, Okay button, and press either the spacebar or enter.


Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----

From: Troy Burnham

Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 4:37 AM

Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?

 

Hi Brian,

 

I found where you're talking about but neither hitting the spacebar or enter on the this pc icon adds it to the desktop.

 

Troy

 

On 2/22/2021 10:19 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Settings, Personalization, Themes Pane, Desktop Icon Settings link.

In the Desktop Icon Settings dialog, there is a set of checkboxes for the common system desktop icons you may want.  Checking the Computer checkbox will put "This PC" on the desktop.  Do not ask me why they have never, as yet, changed "Computer" to "This PC" as the This PC designation is even used just below these checkboxes in the area where the icons themselves are shown.  It's a holdover that has yet to be updated.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)


Re: windows 10 settings and jaws

 

I agree, to my knowledge there isn't anything in Windows 10 you "have" to change for Jaws to work better.

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 12:36 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] windows 10 settings and jaws

It's hard to know what is meant by "optimal settings" -- Windows is meant to be quite configurable, and you can set it up just the way you like it. Anything that claims to be "optimal for jaws" is really just "optimal for a certain user". Maybe if you tell us what specifically you want to do or change, someone will be able to point you to the right setting. A thing to remember if you don't want to waste time poking around setting categories is that you can search for settings in the search box, and will usually be taken to the ones you want.



-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Troy Burnham
Sent: February 22, 2021 03:03 PM
To: win10@groups.io
Subject: [win10] windows 10 settings and jaws

Hi all,


I'm setting up my laptop after windows 10 was reinstalled over the weekend, and I had an old file with what I think were supposed to be the optimal windows 10 settings to work best with jaws but apparently what I have is out of date because I can't find some of the things that should be where the instructions in these files say they are. Does anybody have anything that shows current settings and how they should be set to work best with jaws?


Thanks, btw I'm not sure what version of windows 10 the files I have covered but it must've been starting around 1709 or maybe 1809. I'm now running version I think 20H2O? anyway it should be the latest version.


Troy


Re: File explorer, at times, taking +-5 minutes to launch

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I'd definitely be doing disk health checks, on both disks, using the utility of your choosing for doing so.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)


Re: putting this pc on the desktop?

Troy Burnham
 

Thanks Kevin, I saw a place where it said something was partially checked whatever that means, I'll go back and see if it was computer and if so I'll check it and see what happens.


Troy



On 2/23/2021 8:08 AM, Kevin Minor wrote:

Hi.

 

I can’t remember exactly what I did, but on the screen where the This PC was, there’s a checkbox with Computer next to it. Nothing worked for me until I checked it.

 

Hope this works.

 

Kevin, Valerie and Jilly

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 8:59 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?

 

Hi Troy,

 

After you make your selection of the desktop icons you need to tab to the, Okay button, and press either the spacebar or enter.


Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----

From: Troy Burnham

Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 4:37 AM

Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?

 

Hi Brian,

 

I found where you're talking about but neither hitting the spacebar or enter on the this pc icon adds it to the desktop.

 

Troy

 

On 2/22/2021 10:19 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Settings, Personalization, Themes Pane, Desktop Icon Settings link.

In the Desktop Icon Settings dialog, there is a set of checkboxes for the common system desktop icons you may want.  Checking the Computer checkbox will put "This PC" on the desktop.  Do not ask me why they have never, as yet, changed "Computer" to "This PC" as the This PC designation is even used just below these checkboxes in the area where the icons themselves are shown.  It's a holdover that has yet to be updated.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)


Re: putting this pc on the desktop?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 07:37 AM, Troy Burnham wrote:
I found where you're talking about but neither hitting the spacebar or enter on the this pc icon adds it to the desktop.
-
And that's because that's not what I instructed you to do.  As someone else has already reinforced, the presence or absence of those specific desktop icons are controlled by whether the checkbox associated with it is checked or unchecked.  I also clearly stated that it is the Computer checkbox that controls the presence or absence of the "This PC" icon on the desktop.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)


Re: putting this pc on the desktop?

Kevin Minor
 

Hi.

 

I can’t remember exactly what I did, but on the screen where the This PC was, there’s a checkbox with Computer next to it. Nothing worked for me until I checked it.

 

Hope this works.

 

Kevin, Valerie and Jilly

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 8:59 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?

 

Hi Troy,

 

After you make your selection of the desktop icons you need to tab to the, Okay button, and press either the spacebar or enter.


Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----

From: Troy Burnham

Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 4:37 AM

Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?

 

Hi Brian,

 

I found where you're talking about but neither hitting the spacebar or enter on the this pc icon adds it to the desktop.

 

Troy

 

On 2/22/2021 10:19 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Settings, Personalization, Themes Pane, Desktop Icon Settings link.

In the Desktop Icon Settings dialog, there is a set of checkboxes for the common system desktop icons you may want.  Checking the Computer checkbox will put "This PC" on the desktop.  Do not ask me why they have never, as yet, changed "Computer" to "This PC" as the This PC designation is even used just below these checkboxes in the area where the icons themselves are shown.  It's a holdover that has yet to be updated.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)


Re: putting this pc on the desktop?

Mike B
 


Hi Troy,
 
After you make your selection of the desktop icons you need to tab to the, Okay button, and press either the spacebar or enter.

Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?

Hi Brian,


I found where you're talking about but neither hitting the spacebar or enter on the this pc icon adds it to the desktop.


Troy


On 2/22/2021 10:19 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Settings, Personalization, Themes Pane, Desktop Icon Settings link.

In the Desktop Icon Settings dialog, there is a set of checkboxes for the common system desktop icons you may want.  Checking the Computer checkbox will put "This PC" on the desktop.  Do not ask me why they have never, as yet, changed "Computer" to "This PC" as the This PC designation is even used just below these checkboxes in the area where the icons themselves are shown.  It's a holdover that has yet to be updated.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)


Re: OK? space bar, enter, who knows

Brad Snyder
 

Well, apparently things work differently on your computer, then on every other computer in the world.

- Brad -


On Feb 23, 2021, at 01:30, Bill White <billwhite92701@...> wrote:

Hi, Brad. I have not found that pressing OK applies your changes and closes the dialog.
 
What I have found is that pressing OK without pressing Apply invokes the changes temporarily, whereas pressing Apply followed by pressing OK invokes the changes permanently.
 
Bill White
 
 
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 7:08 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] OK? space bar, enter, who knows
 
I can’t answer for Mike, but in my many years of experience using Windows, pressing Apply, and pressing OK, accomplishes the same thing.  Only difference is that pressing Apply, applies your changes, while pressing OK, applies your changes, and closes the dialogue.
 


- Brad -

 
On Feb 22, 2021, at 20:43, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:
 
Hi Mike B, and List,
 
I read your very recent message about  viewing hidden files.
You said to press “space bar on the apply button”  and enter on the OK button.
Is there any rhyme, reason  or sequence  of knowing when to press which key on which control, including buttons?
 
In Confusion,
 
Monte
 
 
 



Re: Win 10 Questions

Mike B
 


It's hard to say if you're up to date or not since Microsoft doesn't send the same updates to everyone at the same time.  Someone more knowledgeable can explain how Microsoft does and why they do this.
 
What procedure do you follow to shut your computer down?  If you're pressing the power button it's possible your power button is set to, Log off, rather than shut down.

Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: [win10] Win 10 Questions

Well you can check for updates by going into setting > update and security > windows update and  click on the check for updates button

 

And your second question sounds like you have just logged out rather than shut down as that sounds like the lock screen to me, but I may be wrong on that

 

 

From: John Fitzgerald
Sent: 23 February 2021 06:47
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Win 10 Questions

 

Hi,

 

I have a couple of questions about win 10.

 

First, how can I tell if my version is up to date?  I have Version 2004

os build 19041.804

 

Second, What does it mean when, during a shut down, the desktop icons disappear,leaving the mouse arrow and a large clock with the date in the bottom left corner of the screen?  This has happened a number of times, and I have left the computer alone for up to an hour, only to find that nothing has changed.

 

Any ideas?

 

John Fitzgerald

Muse, Oklahoma

 

 




Re: putting this pc on the desktop?

Kevin
 

Go to settings win key + i

Tab to personalization

After opening personalization

Tab to desktop icons enter to open

From the menu select this pc

 

email is golden!!!

Kevin Lee

 

From: Troy Burnham
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 8:08 PM
To: win10@groups.io
Subject: [win10] putting this pc on the desktop?

 

Hi all,

 

 

How do I put this pc on the desktop?

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

Troy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: putting this pc on the desktop?

Troy Burnham
 

Hi Brian,


I found where you're talking about but neither hitting the spacebar or enter on the this pc icon adds it to the desktop.


Troy


On 2/22/2021 10:19 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Settings, Personalization, Themes Pane, Desktop Icon Settings link.

In the Desktop Icon Settings dialog, there is a set of checkboxes for the common system desktop icons you may want.  Checking the Computer checkbox will put "This PC" on the desktop.  Do not ask me why they have never, as yet, changed "Computer" to "This PC" as the This PC designation is even used just below these checkboxes in the area where the icons themselves are shown.  It's a holdover that has yet to be updated.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)


Re: creating a short-cut

chris judge
 

There is no create shortcut option under the more tools option in edge. This is true of chrome, but not edge.s

 

Chris Judge

JAWS Certified, 2021

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: February 22, 2021 8:07 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] creating a short-cut

 

After you find the website and navigate in edge do the following:

  1. Hit alt f in edge.
  1. Find a more or tools option.
  1. Click create shortcut, and follow the prompts.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 22 Feb 2021, at 15:07, Madison Martin wrote:

Hi all,
Can someone please tell me how to create a shortcut for a website so that I can
put it on my desktop? I know how to do this for programs, but I've never done it
for a website. Running the latest versions of Edge and Jaws and the latest build
of Windows 10. Thanks Madison

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