Head list representative asks restraint: RE: [win10] Advisory for JAWS users (from Windows Insiders): numerous issues found when running JAWS 18 with latest Creators Update build #jaws #msftenable #narrator #WinTenOld


 

Hi all,

Normally, the leadership team would have ended this thread, but due to the subject at hand, the thread will continue with a change:

A member of this list has reported another member to the leadership team, bringing up potential list policy violations such as software cracking and continued insistence on unhelpful solutions to simple problems. Until this matter is resolved (either through mutual respect or dismissal of the reported member), the leadership team will put a moderation flag on the reported member (Shaun E), as this member has received warnings before. If any of you (besides the member who reported this person) believe that the moderated member in question should be dismissed, please send your petition to win10+owner@groups.io and prepare to present documented evidence of list policy violations and what not that warrants dismissal.

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 11:26 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Advisory for JAWS users (from Windows Insiders): numerous issues found when running JAWS 18 with latest Creators Update build #JAWS #MSFTEnable #Narrator #WinTenCreatorsUpdate
Importance: High

 

OK, first off, how is this message of your's productive?

 

You cannot tell me that you actually feel VFO is totally to blaim for this! Look, I know that FS/VFO, call them what you will, has issues. I won't deny that. I think all of us on here can attest to that fact regardless if you are a JAWS fan or not.

 

This all said, it's one thing to express dismay for a product. I've done it, you've done it, and I'm sure we all've done it at one time or another.

 

It's another thing though to blaintantly sit here in a public forum that is as credible with a reputation as this and beat a company over the head. Do you know the whole story? Do you know why things in this build broke? I highly doubt it. I sure as heck don't know. I'm not going to tell you that VFO and that their developers have/had nothing to do with this, but VFO makes more products than just JAWS. They make Openbook, the Focus braille displays, etc. lots of other things. So, is it really fair to say that they are this bad based just on this one thing?

 

You might say, it's not just this one thing, OK, whatever. Doesn't matter. The point is, you're saying things which could hurt their reputation publicly quite badly, and if not careful, and enough people follow what you're saying, they could lose business, which could impose legal ramifications on you, which I'm sure you'd not want.

 

And, speaking, of! legal ramifications, I  report people who pirate JFW, or for that mind even mention the possibility of doing so.

 

Sorry, Buster, no ands, ifs, or buts to it! NO exception, so, beware of that. So, you may wanna watch it with your comments on that note!

 

Chris.

 

 

Chris.

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 1:56 PM

Subject: Re: [win10] Advisory for JAWS users (from Windows Insiders): numerous issues found when running JAWS 18 with latest Creators Update build #JAWS #MSFTEnable #Narrator #WinTenCreatorsUpdate

 

And this shows how much vfo care about users and things.
Sadly they own windoweyes and jaws now, I have supernova which
traditionally has good support and for everything else I have nvda.
This almost makes want me to post my old jaws licence to crackers, snap
all my jaws disks and send them back to vfo but the shipping just
doesn't justify it.
While while I used jaws at school even though it was late I never had
any support issues, I found it clunky and just stupid, the fact it came
at the end and not beginning of studdy is another matter but I will
never recomend this reader again.
True maybe put a warning about the betas and such but to be honest this
is just bad.
I am not supprised, on a tech blog a little bit ago windoweyes and other
stuff by ai squared which I think is part of vfo now posted they had
been hacked and the certifficate was compromised.
After the guy I read the blog off pushed into things and getting fobbed
off he learned that the hacked words of a compromised certifficate were
mis typed, the certifficate was due to expire and worse the old one may
have still 20 years on it.
If they don't post the right info who would trust them.
I am no saint, on one one of my gaming companies I work for I posted the
wrong info but when told I had I admitted to it and corrected things and
am making sure I never repeat the mistake.



On 13/02/2017 7:41 a.m., Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
> I don't think you crossed the bounds. Honestly, it's info like this that we need to know, as had I not, then I'd updated, I would a been one pissed off little dude. So, thanks for the heads up.
>
> Chris.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Joseph Lee
>   To: win10@win10.groups.io
>   Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 12:46 PM
>   Subject: Re: [win10] Advisory for JAWS users (from Windows Insiders): numerous issues found when running JAWS 18 with latest Creators Update build #JAWS #MSFTEnable #Narrator #WinTenCreatorsUpdate
>
>
>   Hi all,
>
>   Follow-up: Microsoft is aware of these issues.
>
>   As for red flagging JAWS: someone over at Twitter pointed out that VFO doesn't necessarily support folks using beta versions of Windows and JAWS. However, I'm of the opinion that Windows Insiders have the right to test JAWS in beta builds in helping out with finding accessibility bugs and others, as we (the Insiders) have joined the Windows Insider Program to help Microsoft, VFO, NV Access and others by locating bugs and providing suggestions, and to make sure that all of us have the best experience with our screen readers by the time a stable build comes out. As for the use of the phrase "red flag", I do admit that I may have crossed boundaries, so I'll take that word back and say that, should any of the issues discussed in this thread (and a corresponding thread on Insiders subgroup) comes to stable builds, then an advisory will be sent asking folks to hold off for a while, like what we had to do last year when Version 1607 first shipped.
>
>   Thanks.
>
>   Cheers,
>
>   Joseph
>
>
>
>   From: Joseph Lee [mailto:joseph.lee22590@...]
>   Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 1:01 PM
>   To: 'win10@win10.groups.io' <win10@win10.groups.io>
>   Subject: RE: [win10] Advisory for JAWS users (from Windows Insiders): numerous issues found when running JAWS 18 with latest Creators Update build #JAWS #MSFTEnable #Narrator #WinTenCreatorsUpdate
>
>
>
>   Hi,
>
>   The Creators Update is undergoing bug fix mode at the moment. The final build will not be shown for a little while (still reports itself as Version 1607, and this info must change in a build).
>
>   Cheers,
>
>   Joseph
>
>
>
>   From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alan Robbins
>   Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 12:49 PM
>   To: win10@win10.groups.io
>   Subject: Re: [win10] Advisory for JAWS users (from Windows Insiders): numerous issues found when running JAWS 18 with latest Creators Update build #JAWS #MSFTEnable #Narrator #WinTenCreatorsUpdate
>
>
>
>   Joseph,
>
>
>
>   Very frustrating information, but thanks for sharing. Don't understand why this type stuff happens. Will they release this build in this condition to general users or fix first?
>
>
>
>   Al
>
>
>
>   From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
>   Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 12:26 PM
>   To: win10@win10.groups.io
>   Subject: [win10] Advisory for JAWS users (from Windows Insiders): numerous issues found when running JAWS 18 with latest Creators Update build #JAWS #MSFTEnable #Narrator #WinTenCreatorsUpdate
>
>
>
>   Hi everyone, especially JAWS users,
>
>   Normally I don't post messages from Insiders subgroup on this parent forum, but the below advisory is important for JAWS users who are not Insiders, hence the below announcement.
>
>
>
>   An important advisory on Creators Update Preview builds and JAWS for Windows:
>
>
>
>   Numerous issues were documented in regards to using JAWS 18 with latest Creators Update build (build 15031). These include:
>
>
>
>     a.. When Windows key is pressed, Start menu does not appear.
>     b.. Opening Settings app (Windows+I) and attempting to navigate to various pages results in Settings app crashing.
>     c.. After locking your computer, when trying to sign in, you cannot proceed.
>     d.. When you try to turn off your computer by pressing Windows+X, U, U, the computer does not turn off while JAWS is running. Same happens when trying to restart your computer.
>     e.. Launching Narrator (Control+Windows+ENTER) while JAWS is running results in a pop-up advising users to terminate Narrator due to instruction reference issue (with memory addresses given).
>
>
>   These are some of the issues found by I and other Windows Insiders, and are considered showstoppers (very critical issues that prevents users from using a program effectively). I'm keeping a very close eye on these, and have advised Windows Insiders to file feedback items via Feedback Hub app and to notify VFO. The workaround is going back to an earlier build. If any of these shows up while users are using stable build of Creators Update this spring, I'll consider red flagging JAWS 18 (adding to "not compatible" list) until VFO and/or Microsoft rectifies them (and I am serious when I say I'll do this, as it is critical that users use Windows 10 effectively with screen readers of their choice, including JAWS).
>
>
>
>   Cheers,
>
>   Joseph
>
>
>
>


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